From: thug@phantom.com (Murdering Thug)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 09:39:03 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: the bill of rights hasn't been revoked. not yet, anyway.
In-Reply-To: <199301221440.AA05524@ra.oc.com>
Message-ID: <m0nFSHu-000jpKC@phantom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Matthew Lyle writes:
> In a recent message, Murdering Thug said:
> | The Fifth Ammendment is the tastiest one of all when it comes to
> | encryption.  By pleading the Fifth, you do not have to decrypt anything
> | for the prosecution.  The Fifth Ammendment gives you the right not to
> | testify or provide evidence that would incriminate you.  Providing a
> | key to decrypt your hard disk would incriminate you, and you don't
> | have to do it.
> 
> What the government has to do in this case is to give you immunity from
> prosecution.  They can then order you to decrypt your hard disk.  You can't
> refuse based on the 5th ammendment because you have been given immunity from
> prosecution.  They can't use the hard drive against you, but they then can
> in anybody elses prosecution.

Agreed. I guess if you refuse after that point, they can hold you in contempt
of court or cite you for obstruction of justice.

BUT, what if they "crime" involves only you. Then they (the prosecutors) are
up shit's creek, pardon the language. You're immune, and there's no one
left to prosecute.


Okay, let's assume the crime involves a conspiracy, and they give you immunity
and force you to decrypt your hard disk.  What good would this do them if
all your communications between your conspirators took place anonymously and
the messages from your conspirators are so vague/obscure as to be worthless
as evidence.  Now, they have already given you immunity, and now they can't
even go after your conspirators because they may not even know who those
conspirators are or even what the hell those conspirators were talking about
in their vague/obscure messages to you.  Even if the prosecutors know what
the messages are in reference to, they still have to prove that in a court
of law, beyond a reasonable doubt. Since they cannot go back on their
promise of immunity to you, the prosecutors are again up shit's creek.

All this will only work providing the prosecutors have no other evidence
against you (ie: voice wire taps, physical evidence (notes, cancelled checks,
survielance video, stashed cash, etc.)). If you conduct EVERYTHING via
encrypted and anonymous communications and keep all records encrypted, they
really cannot touch you.

Don't you just love crypto-anarchy? I know I do.


Thug