1993-11-09 - Re: Private and Public

Header Data

From: doug@netcom.com (Doug Merritt)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Message Hash: 0e148d97fdc0460f282367e16921a779bc53e588425a21d0921c4734956a80c4
Message ID: <199311090536.VAA08446@mail.netcom.com>
Reply To: <pmetzger@lehman.com>
UTC Datetime: 1993-11-09 05:38:32 UTC
Raw Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 21:38:32 PST

Raw message

From: doug@netcom.com (Doug Merritt)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 21:38:32 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Private and Public
In-Reply-To: <pmetzger@lehman.com>
Message-ID: <199311090536.VAA08446@mail.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

"Perry E. Metzger" <pmetzger@lehman.com> said:
>However, this entire topic belongs on places like talk.politics.misc,
>not cypherpunks. I would suggest that it be conducted elsewhere.

I very strongly disagree. The social, political, and economic impact
of cryptographic techniques is at least as important as the technology
itself. Pure algorithms can be discussed in sci.crypt, after all.
Cypherpunks do not have a common agenda, but we do share an interest
in how the future world will be shaped by cryptographic technology.

>Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a social contract --
>I never signed anything, and from what I can tell the terms on the social
>contract are ones I would never have accepted.

Incorrect. You have complete freedom as to your citizenship. Any time that
you choose, you are free to renounce your citizenship, and thereby
reject the contract that citizenship gives you. Naturalized citizens
of a country/government *very* explicitly enter into the contract; those
of you born into citizenship tend to not to think about the subject very
deeply, but basically you are simply being granted the privilege of
skipping the formalisms, on the assumption that you either accept the
contract, or will explicitly opt out.

If you continue to accept the freely-granted citizenship you were born
into, then you are also accepting the entire contract, like it or not.

If you truly reject the contract that U.S. citizenship obligates you to,
with all its positive and negative points, then go ahead and give it up.
Put your money where your mouth is.

Otherwise, accept that citizenship is a two-way street, and work within
that system to change it to your tastes, rather than denying that the
contract even exists.

>I would be happy to
>purchase what the goverment give me on the open market -- I see no
>need for government to be involved in mail delivery or garbage
>collection or schools or any of the other things it runs -- from what
>I can tell all it touches turns to crap.

I completely agree. But this is quite a different subject.
Doug Merritt				doug@netcom.com
Professional Wild-eyed Visionary	Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow

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