From: Jonathan Zamick <JonathanZ@consensus.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:22:28 +0800
To: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: COMMUNITY CONNEXION REFUSES TO CENSOR INTERNET SERVICES
Message-ID: <v02120d01ad1f4b3400c7@[157.22.240.13]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>        the SWC is a prime example of very narrow view which is trying to
>    "control" what we can say --unfortunately, SWC is guilty of the same
>    mind-control tactics as the core Nazi party which persecuted them  ==
>    a very poor example.  In Germany, trading on collective guilt they
>    will never stop feeding, they have effectively controlled the issue
>    so that _any_ speech or revision against their agenda is a hate crime,
>    and therefore a serious felony.
>
>        thank you for standing up to the Simon Weisenthal Center!

Ok, I know better than to get into:
a) Totally off topic discussions on lists
and even worse
b) Political, off topic discussions.

However, I really do feel its my obligation to offer a counterpoint to
Attila here. (Not a sanction of his own discussion, but a little debate.)
I do this because I had a long talk with someone who liked to use weighted
terms to speak against jews and jewish organizations, and am still a wee
bit sensitive.

What the SWC asked was idiotic. However, they are in no way guilty of the
same 'mind-control tactics as the core Nazi party.' That is exibitionism,
and is dangerous. They sent out a request asking ISPs to take an action.
They did not demand it, imply any sort of economic response, or direct
physical response. As for Germany, a number of different cultures were
attacked in WWII. On the one hand Jews are most often discussed, because
they were the most openly herded and vilified at the time. However, Russians,
Poles, Gypsies, Gays and many others were also sent to camps. Germany is
a very multicultural nation. The tensions, and issues of keeping a cap on
racism are very important. When neonazis killed the turkish family, thousands
of Germans turned out to show that they won't stand for such again. If that
is the result of actions taken by the SWC in the media, and in politics then
I'd say they have done a wonderful job overall.

As for attempts of revision. What sort of revision? If you mean historical
revision, like the groups which claim the Holocaust (again something which
affected many different groups) never happened, or was a Jewish conspiracy,
then I'm glad that sort of revision is seen as a hate crime.

The reason I'm so sensitive about these things is that the person I had a
debate with over this area before could see nothing done by Jews in a positive
light. Use of the media was whining, use of the law was sneaky, actual action
was nazism. Thus I'll stop now. I don't condone what the SWC asked for in this
case, and those who know my postings should know I strongly support privacy
and freedom of expression. I just equally feel that its my obligation when
certain things are posted, to not let little loaded comments go unrebutted.

(See whoever is there at the RSA conference this week.)

Jonathan

Sorry again for taking up the list's time.