From: Sean Gabb <cea01sig@gold.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 20:41:47 +0800
To: tallpaul <tallpaul@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Online Zakat Payment: Religious tithe.
In-Reply-To: <199602160408.XAA12403@pipe11.nyc.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960216111339.22887C-100000@scorpio.gold.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, tallpaul wrote:

> Why oh why am I getting the idea that "cypherpunks" would better be called
> "cryptoauthoritarians." From murder-as-political-liberation, to the
> universalization of the libertarians "feelings" onto everyone else in the
> world, to the mass nuclear bombings of civilians to the mass nuclear
> elimination of religions. 
>  
> My, my. For a group of people so uspet at taxes you certainly have faith in
> the ability of private individuals to generate the capital for things like
> the Manhattan Project and high-cost nuke delivery systems! 
>  
> On Feb 15, 1996 20:03:56, 'Sean Gabb <cea01sig@gold.ac.uk>' wrote: 
>  
>  
> >True, there are risks in generalising from the actions of one individual  
> >to the group as a whole.  Nevertheless, where Islam is concerned, there  
> >are so many individuals behaving badly that we are justified in thinking  
> >the whole religion a force for bad. 
> > 
> >Doubtless, I shall be told that "true Islam" is "true tolerance", "true  
> >freedom", and even "true apple pie".  I may be told that the horrors of  
> >actually existing Islam - remember this phrase, or something like it? -  
> >are all somehow the fault of the West.  But the fact is that most Moslems 
> 
> >venerate old men in beards, who think that anyone who disagrees  
> >with them about God should be put to death, that a woman with a  
> >clitoris is a kind of devil, and that Western classical music is evil. 
> > 
> >By my standards, these people are disgusting.  My only dispute with Tim  
> >is in our manner of expressing our disgust. 
> > 
> >Sean Gabb 
> >Editor 
> >Free Life. 
> > 
>  
>  
> I was wondering if S. Gabb, as a self-declared expert on Islam, if he might
> explain the difference between the Sunni and Shi'ite sects, and the
> respective size of each? 

Yes, Mr Tallpaul, I see you are upset by my reply to your threat to have 
me arrested in London and dragged off to New York to face trial for 
having sent messages to this list that found their way to you.  As I 
understand it, the division between the Shiites and Sunnites goes back to 
a dispute in the seventh century between Ali, the son-in-law of Mahomet, 
and Muawiya, the Caliph of the time.  Since then, the Shiites have 
divided and dubdivided into many sects, while the Sunnites have remained 
more or less united.  To this extent, the division within Islam is 
similar to that between Catholics and Protestants - though I wouldn't 
like to draw any comparisons between the doctrinal disputes of Islam and 
Christianity.

As for their respective sizes, estimates vary; but the proportion 
most commonly given between Shiites and Sunnites is 15:85.  If you have 
other figures, doubtless you will post them.

>  
> I am also curious if he could point us to a single written example where he
> or anyone else has ever been told the various things that he "doubtless"
> will be told? 
>  
Yes, Mr Tallpaul, I can and will.  You should consult the various 
publications of the Islamic Propagation Centre International, at 481 
Coventry Road, Birmingham, B10 0JS, England, fax - **121 766 8577.  You 
will find enough there to have any sceptic wetting himself with laughter.

> In short, is this important history posted on cypherpunks, more libertarian
> political demagogery,  or another J. Bell-like reference to the
> universalization of the libertarian's feelings onto the rest of the world? 
>  
In fairness, this is a good point.  I accept that a list that I joined in 
order to read about Phil Zimmerman and pgp is not the best place for 
discussing the horrors of Islam.  I will therefore say no more on the 
subject - not even uploading the review I promised in an earlier 
posting.  I shall return to lurking.

Sean Gabb
Editor
Free Life
(I would remind you all that another issue of this comes out in March, 
but Mr Tallpaul might persuade his government to do to me what it did to 
General Noriega)

> 
--tallpaul >   "Gentle Jesus >   "Meek and mild >   "Bless me 
>   "While I nuke this child. 
>   "But reassure'em 
>   "As I wack'em 
>   "I love their rights; 
>   "I'll never tax'em."
>