From: Anonymous <remailer@htp.org>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 02:05:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Great Awakening - Final Post (hopefully)
Message-ID: <19971123175500.10793.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Jim Choate wrote:
>Then you should go back and read them some more. In fact, if you still have
>the originals they include in the header the URL where I got the data from.
>Take the 10 minutes and go over and take a look at them. All three were
>related to religous revivalism in one form or another. The 1st (which
>itself some consider to be the second occurance of a previous movement
>as indicated in the title) did not occur in the 1800's which was the
>original precis that somebody threw out

Bob Hettinga said it was in the 1800's.  You said you thought it started in 
the 1500's, going no later than the early 1700's.  Bob retorted that he 
thought you were confusing the Renaissance with the Great Awakening.  I
chimed in by quoting Norton's Anthology which stated that the period was
in the early 18th century.  Take 10 minutes to "check the archives."  

>I did some looking around as well and other then Norton, yourself, and
>whoever it was that made the original claim all references I can find to
>the Great Awakening refer to the 1700-1750 event(s) as the first one to
>occur in the America's. If I can find my Norton Anthology I'll take a
>look at it, though it is 15+ years old.

If you look back at my post, you will see that this is what I (and Norton) 
were claiming.  The early eighteenth century = the early 1700's!  Read my
first post which included the quote from Norton's Anthology.

In other words, we both agree that the Great Awakening ended by the middle
of the eighteenth century (a.k.a., 1700's), not the middle of the nineteenth
century (a.k.a., 1800's) as Bob was claiming.

>> >Subject: 1st Great Awakening
>> [...]
>> > X-within-URL: http://www.fourthturning.com/html/great_awakening.html
>
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >    The Great Awakening (Second Turning, 1727-1746) began as a spiritual
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Second Turning" has to due with the cyclical theory that the authors of the 
web page you cited have written about.  The fact is that they refer to that 
time period (early 1700's/18th c.) as the Great Awakening, not the Second 
Great Awakening.  If you read the other pages at the site *more carefully* 
you will see that they were stuffing the Great Awakening into their theory 
under the category named the Second Turning (out of four, thus the site's 
name: fourthturning.com).

Notice your Subject: line says 1st Great Awakening, but that you're using the
parenthetically referenced Second Turning as a justification to contradict
what I (and you) have been saying all along.  What's going on here?

How can we have any meaningful discussion on this list when we don't pay any
attention to what we are writing or what others wrote?

Nerthus

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 ^^^^
Dig that!