From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart@pobox.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:43:36 +0800
To: "Eric J. Tune" <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220212147.008be2a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
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>>What the world needs now is not another mass killing of Iraqis by the
>>United States government.  What the world really needs now is a fifty
>>dollar weapon that sinks aircraft carriers.

The Stinger missile and the bazooka have been a good start, letting 
local defenders stop the expensive tools of attacking armies.

At 08:42 PM 2/19/98 -0800, Eric J. Tune wrote:
>>> These soldiers went where they were ordered to go, as befits a soldier,
>>> and tried to do the job they were given and accomplish the mission, and
>>> for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES Y O U R RESPECT.  I am quite sure
>>> the vast majority of them thought it was patently stupid to go to
>>> Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders, legal ones,
>>> and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.

Following stupid orders gets your fellow soldiers killed stupidly.
Following immoral orders gets your fellow soldiers killed, and gets the 
opposing soldiers killed, and gets the civilian collateral damage killed,
and the fact that you're following orders doesn't absolve you of guilt.
Once you're in the war, you're also fighting to keep your buddies from
getting killed, and to keep from getting killed yourself, and if the
orders are tactically correct and sacrifice you and your buddies as
the price of an overall victory, that's the price of being a soldier.
But if you shouldn't be there, you shouldn't be there, no matter how
competent and brave and patriotic you're being while you're there.
Most soldiers I've known believe in following orders, and the politicians
who send them there pull out all the stops to keep them believing it.

>Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, Iraq attacked
>Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis. ... America would have never
>been involved if Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait.  

Yeah?  In 1980, Iraq attacked Iran, and the US sold them weapons,
and Saddam was Reagan & Bush's good buddy and ally.  And in 1990
when Saddam was talking with the US Ambassador about their border problem,
she said the US had no interest in such a purely local problem.
OK, it wasn't like we had to twist Saddam's arm to get him to invade;
he is a militarist asshole - but in 1980 that was a Good Thing.
And in 19{pick a number} Israel invaded South Lebanon - Good Thing Too!

Is it possible that it's got a lot more to do with US Foreign policy
or geopolitical interests?  Or about the fact that the US Military-
Industrial Complex was severely threatened by the lack of Commies?
Or just partly because George Bush's Neilsen ratings were down
and he'd had good results invading Panama?  Or that the Ayatollah
had gotten rid of one of America's favorite dictators in Iran
just a year or two before (even though he disliked Commies too)?
Or because the US Army wanted to make sure everybody knows that
they can kick anybody's ass, anywhere, anytime?

In the process of demolishing Iraq, Bush's army killed hundreds of
thousands of civilians, demolishing much of the civilian infrastructure
for safe drinking water (which probably killed more people than
the bombing did), as well as killing tens of thousands of
draftee soldiers.  If the objective had been to get rid of Saddam,
a couple dozen good Mossad agents or Green Berets could have
taken him out quickly and efficiently.  That wasn't the objective.

> I don't think air strikes are the answer to this, and I think 
> Clinton is a moron for his present policy,

He's a sleaze, but no moron - his objectives are maintaining his own
political influence, which he's very good at, as opposed to doing
anything positive for the Kuwaitis or Iraqis or Americans....

>Evidently, you again know nothing of what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis on
>their way in to Kuwait.  Get educated, shithead. 
Probably about like what they did to the Iranians or what the
Israelis did to the South Lebanese, except that it was Bad instead of Good.

>To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but for all
>it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for all the foreign
>policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us over, or starts wars, or
>sticks their collective nose in other countries business...but for the fact
>that as a whole people, Americans still keep trying, everyday, to be a
>better people. I'm proud of that.

I agree.  And telling the government to stop initiating wars and trying
to get the people not to jump in line behind a propaganda bandwagon
are a good part of trying to be a better people.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639