1996-11-28 - Re: Counterproductive Dorothy Denning Flames

Header Data

From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Message Hash: 2a1524de38149c6acd7f843e8853c52d15bde796849d56087a26d8d2d8891a53
Message ID: <giw3XD10w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Reply To: <199611271810.KAA02393@netcom17.netcom.com>
UTC Datetime: 1996-11-28 02:20:18 UTC
Raw Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:20:18 -0800 (PST)

Raw message

From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:20:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Counterproductive Dorothy Denning Flames
In-Reply-To: <199611271810.KAA02393@netcom17.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <giw3XD10w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos) writes:

> William H. Geiger III writes:
>  > Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!
>  > William Reinsch is a lying bastard. Fucking politions!!
>  > Fucking goverment!! They all deserve a long rope!!
> It is perhaps a point in Dr. Denning's favor that her most
> vitriolic detractors can spell neither "Dorothy" nor "fascist".

Yes. On the Internet it may not be immediately evident that the other side
of the debate is represented by clueless juveniles with whom you simply
wouldn't talk in a physical encounter. Trying to explain the need for key
escrow to a 15-year-old self-professed "Libertarian" (or indeed trying to
explain anything about cryptography to a group that collectively claims that
discussions of elliptic curves are "off-topic") is literally throwing pearls
before the swine.

> I must admit that I am at a loss to understand the heat which
> Dorothy Denning generates on the Cypherpunks list, which seems to
> be second only to the heat generated by posting recipes for roast
> feline in rec.pets.cats.

I've seen other people abused on this mailing list - usually, whoever
knows more about cryptography then the regular "lynch mob".

> All of the people I know who have met her find her to be a
> pleasant person, and the occasional Email messages we have
> exchanged have certainly been positive and friendly.  While she
> tends to view the Four Horsemen of the Infocolypse as a bit more
> threatening than the typical Cypherpunk, I don't think her views
> are so extreme as to justify the continuous screams of "crypto
> toady", "government suckup", and "wicked witch" which seem to pop
> up in response to her every utterance.

I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Denning in person and I asked her
about her views on GAK. Her responses made a lot of sense to me. Most
businesses, if they thought about it, would prohibit their employers
from having information on company computers encrypted so the owner
of the computer can't read them. This is just good business sense.

> I would even go so far as to say that this list would be a lot
> more entertaining if she were contributing to it, and sci.crypt
> is certainly a less interesting place now than it was in bygone
> days when she was posting there.

This mailing list suffers from the presence of several mentally disturbed
juveniles who a) are clearly ignorant of cryptography (e.g. rant about
brute force attacks on OTP); b) are cognizant of their utter ignorance and
stupidity; c) are envious of anyone who does know what s/he's talking

So, they feel compelled to harrass anyone who's smarter / more
knowledgeable than they are (sometimes using the anonymous remailers) in
an effort to drive all intelligent discussion off their "private mailing
list", so ignoramuses like Bradley can sound like "local experts".

The continuing verbal abuse of Dr. Denning is no different from the abuse
previously heaped on Fred Cohen or David Sternlight or yours truly.


Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps