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1995-11-07 - Re: Exporting software doesn’t mean exporting (was: Re: lp ?)

Header Data

From: “Peter D. Junger” <junger@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Message Hash: b35b754fdfcffc3c3d03992500bc163bfcd758a026d5ab3390c83bd52f085db8
Message ID: <m0tCngd-0004JWC@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
Reply To: <199511070405.XAA14913@jekyll.piermont.com>
UTC Datetime: 1995-11-07 13:25:25 UTC
Raw Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:25:25 +0800

Raw message

From: "Peter D. Junger" <junger@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:25:25 +0800
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Exporting software doesn't mean exporting (was: Re: lp ?)
In-Reply-To: <199511070405.XAA14913@jekyll.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <m0tCngd-0004JWC@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Perry E. Metzger" writes:

: "Peter D. Junger" writes:
: 
: > If a Frenchman on vacation in the Riviera shows a copy of PGP sourcecode
: > to a German businessman there, that is literally a violation of the
: > ITAR.
: 
: Where the hell did you get that idea?  

>From Section 120.17 of the ITAR which provides:

 _Export_ means:

 . . . .

 (4) Disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or transfering
 technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or
 abroad . . . .

(And technical data is (baroquely) defined in Section 120.10 as
including certain software, including crytographic software.)

: The ITAR clearly does not apply
: to foreigners disclosing things to each other outside the United
: States. 

Where the hell did you get that idea?  

: I've read it and I can't see how it could possibly be so
: interpreted. I'm not a lawyer, but this interpretation is so bizarre
: as to be almost untenable. I can clearly see that a U.S. person
: talking about DES to a foreign person can be a violation under the
: language in the regulations, but there is no way on earth to interpret
: the regulations as applying to foreigners abroad talking to other
: foreigners outside the U.S.

Go read the section that I quoted again.  Where is there an exception
for foreign persons who happen to be abroad?  

: > Don't expect the ITAR to make any sense.  And don't think that you can
: > apply logic to the ITAR and get logical results.  It doesn't work that
: > way.

: I was under the impression, though, that the words meant what they
: said.

When did you change your mind?

--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
Internet:  junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu    junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu

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