From: J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl@triton.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 20:36:50 PST
To: phantom@u.washington.edu (The Phantom)
Subject: Re: HIDE: embedded msgs in grphics & snd
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303191413.A10793-c100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9303200435.AA26847@triton.unm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> George pointed out what I pointed out earlier - sending the latest
> Michael Jackson tune over the net might raise eyebrows as well as
> copyright violations. Being from the 'grunge town' of Seattle, it was

Besides, Michael Jackson sucks! ;^)

> discussed that perhaps it would be possible to send a copy of some
> 'unknown' band over the net without harm. In fact, perhaps this is a
> good place to start: the underground music scene.

I assume you mean with their permission.  Think of it, you tell a band that you want to distribute one of their demo's around the world.  I think they'd buy it.
And I don't think they'd care that you embedded a message in it, either.  And a
lot of cypherpunks like underground music.  Works for all of us.  I like this 
idea and think it could work.

> gg - "This week on Music By Wire, a new song by the Subversives,
> recorded at Pretty Good Productions. . ."

I love it! Pretty Good Productions...  That's the best. ;^)

> Next, discussion turned to the integration of modem carrier tones as
> samples in music (rap). If this new twist caught on, the artist could
> encode messages (in plaintext, or later ciphertext) into the song,

I don't know, will a modem weed out all of the noise to get to the carrier
tones that we embedded in the crap...er...I mean rap music. ;^)

> including the key on the record insert. What does this do for us? By
> using ciphertext "... as an artistic product, ..[we] thereby gain
> another layer of 1st Amendment protection." Free speech.

Nice!
>  
> Lastly and perhaps most interesting: I suggested that by using one of
> these garage bands, we might be able to distribute our own messages
> on CD. By getting ahold of a local bands' master before they take it
> to get a record pressed, we could digitize it ourselves, encode our
> messages (the kama sutra, a message of goodwill, the songs' lyrics,
> whatever the band wants, too!) into the LSBs and then give it back to
> the band to press CDs (put the key on the front cover if you like).

I wonder if a PC will read the data that comprises a CD data-set.  My
consern is about directory structure etc.

> The band could be told that not only were they certain to sell ~100
> CDs (@ $12-$14 each = $1,300 -- no small sum for a garage band) just
> to cypherpunk members, but they would also be "the first band in
> history to digitally encode messages into their music... etc."

Kind of a new twist on backward subliminal messages, eh? ;^)

> I don't think the ~100 CDs is an understatement, either. How many
> cypherpunks do we have nowadays? I would be willing to shell over
> $15 for a (basically) small-capacity encrypted CD ROM disk, even
> though I personally don't have a player.

We could distribute the needed source code on an underground basis.
We could distribute whole software packages piggy-backing on a garage 
band's demo!  Bitchen!
>  
> gg and myself are both rather interested in this last idea --
> tweaking with a bands' CD before it gets pressed. Does it
> sound promising to anyone else?

Most definately!

+----------------------+----------------------------------------------------+
| J. Michael Diehl ;-) |  I thought I was wrong once.  But, I was mistaken. |
|                      +----------------------------------------------------+
| mdiehl@triton.unm.edu| "I'm just looking for the opportunity to be        |
| Thunder@forum        |            Politically Incorrect!                  |
| (505) 299-2282       |                        <me>                        |
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