From: J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl@triton.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:49:10 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re: Constitution.
Message-ID: <9305211749.AA28087@triton.unm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry all, but I had to reply to this letter, and since it was net-wide
distribution, I felt I should reply in kind.

>[reality check on]

:Fantacy Mode Off.

>>> If this is going to be a constitution for the new age, lets have the wording
>>> reflect the ideals we hold.
>> 
>>I've always thought that fighting over this kind of trivia was kinda childish.
>> It used to be that when someone said, "...and one giant step for mankind...,"
>> that we understood this to include EVERYBODY!  Lets pick our fights better 
>> than this, shall we?  

>Excuse me, but it seems that you are being very defensive. I was not picking
>a fight. It is evident that you cling to "It used to be that" ideals. Just 
>because something "used to be" is not justification for its perpetuation. Is
>it such a drastic step to replace a couple words that you feel necessary to
>ridicule something that I consider important? As far as I am concerned, Mr.Diehl
>it is YOU who are being childish. Wake up, will you? And please refrain from
>using the word "we". I do not enjoy being patronized.

Defensive?  I don't think so.  I am simply pointing out how silly this though-
control business really is.  I wasn't personally injured by it; it's just too
silly to worry so much about.  Perhapse "fight" wasn't the correct word.  I'm 
sorry.  Tell me, what is wrong with "'It used to be that' ideals?"  I hope
you don't believe that "mankind" only refers to "malekind."  This is furthest
from the truth.  To answere you'r question, no, it is not such a drastic step,
but it bothers me that people feel it necessary to traditional and natural
language into something that is artificial and restrictive.  You go on to 
state that this is something that you feel strongly about; fine, but you don't
hold a monopoly on opinion.  Then you go on to say that I am childish and that
I should wake up.  I'll just say that I consider this to be a mere personal
attack and remind you that I made no such attack to you; and I'll leave it at
that.  

Then you reqest that I refrain from using the word "we."  Let me requote 
something you wrote:

>>> If this is going to be a constitution for the new age, lets have the wording
>>> reflect the ideals we hold.
-----------------------^
Since when is it ok for you, but in bad taste for me?  Especially since you are
attributing "ideals we hold" to people without asserting what these ideals are.
And your asserting that we need special, approved language to express these
ideals.  I can't decide if the ideal at hand is gender-equallity, or language-
neutrality.  Remember that this little discussion is NET-WIDE, so "we" refers to
Cypherpunks, not YOU in particular.  Perhapse you are being a bit defensive?


>> Sorry, just couldn't resist..... ;^)
>Obviously. You are indeed a man of tremendous wit and satire. 
Thank you! Even if you are being sarcastic.  I'm too gullible to know the
difference. ;^)  Actually, I hope it was at least amusing even if you didn't 
agree. 

> +------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+
> |            Politically Incorrect!"   <Me>                     |
>Also plainly obvious. 

If I lived under a dictatorship, this would read, "I'm just.....to be
democratic."  This is my protest against an "ideal" that I find smacking of
censorship, 1984, and class-hatred.  Under PC, other people have the right to
tell me what I can and can not say, as you did above.  PC would restrict my
sometimes limited use of language even further by mandating that I use only
approved words and phrases.  Eventually, I'll not even be able to talk about
such things as gender-differences because this (amoung many others) will have
been deemed "unfit for correct conversation."  

"And now, back to our regularly scheduled program...."

+-----------------------+-----------------------------+---------+
| J. Michael Diehl ;-)  | I thought I was wrong once. | PGP KEY |
| mdiehl@triton.unm.edu |   But, I was mistaken.      |available|
| mike.diehl@fido.org   |                             | Ask Me! |
| (505) 299-2282        +-----------------------------+---------+
|                                                               |
+------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+
|            Politically Incorrect!"   <Me>                     |
+-----If codes are outlawed, only criminals wil have codes.-----+
+----Is Big Brother in your phone?  If you don't know, ask me---+