From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 19:26:04 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Crypto Credentials
In-Reply-To: <9307152150.AA24691@photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9307160226.AA14540@netcom3.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cypherzens,

Andrew Hall writes:

> Perry doesn't need my defense, but I will add that this mostly-lurking
> cypherpunk doesn't think he is an asshole. He is brutally honest and
> declares his opinion. I respect that. While he is often a bit wired,
> I have yet to see any hostility to those who didn't deserve it. (
> cf recent extropians/pagans love-in or alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.children)

Well, Perry didn't give the same response *I* would have given, but
then I didn't give a response at all, so I can hardly complain.
(Reading lists have been sent out before, and some basic materials are
contained in the pub/cypherpunks archives at soda.berkeley.edu,
including a glossary of terms, the various PGP files (including the
nice docs that Perry mentioned), and various "rants" by several of us.
This is a good place for newcomers to browse to get a feel for what
Cypherpunks is all about.)

It turns out that I was smack in the middle of both events Andrew just
referred to, and I can tell you first-hand that folks on the Net are
getting too freaked out over the views of others.

I posted the fake PGP-GIF in a.b.p.e.c., which provoked huge outcries
of "Thoughtcrime!!" And on the "Extropians" mailing list I was
challenged by Eric Raymond, the fellow who volunteered to write the
Cypherpunks FAQ on his first day on this list, to study various
writings on Paganism, Druidism, Shamanism, and Witchcraft and then
judge it "rational" or not (I won't bore you with the details).  When
I judged it "not rational" and "inconsistent" with the technophilic
emphasis of the Extropians list, all hell broke loose (figuratively,
and perhaps literally if Eric's witchly connections are as he
advertises!).

In fact, that List (Extropians) is so contentious and polarized that I
have temporarily unsubscribed for the rest of the summer (and perhaps
longer, depending on how I feel in the fall). The advantage of smaller
groups like Cypherpunks and Extropians, as mailing lists, is that
people can come to know each other and thus better avoid flaming.

Even better are in-person meetings, even if this contradicts the
"jacked-in," "wired" image of cyberpunks and console cowboys! The
Cypherpunks physical meetings in Mountain View are friendly, helpful,
and not at all rancorous. Likewise, the Extropians events I've
attended in the Bay Area (Thursday lunches, a couple of lectures, and
some parties) have been friendly and free of divisiveness and flaming.
This aspect of the in-person contacts has not been adequately
duplicated on the Net. But small groups like ours, where reputations
matter and where flamers can and should be simply expelled, are one
major hope. I, for one, don't want David Sternlight on our List.
(However, this could happen, as we have no membership screening
process. Still, we can hope that the flame wars that rage unchecked on
the Net as a whole can be limited to just small brush fires on our List.)

I'd hate to see our List degenerate into the kind of flaming so common
throughout the Net world. We've had a few minor flame wars, but have
pulled back from the abyss each time.

We ought to try to keep it that way.

Cheers!

-Tim

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.