From: ""L. Detweiler"" <ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 21:38:05 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: State Dept. shuts down DEC machine
Message-ID: <9307130437.AA19964@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A very hot topic (and one of my favorites to track) on this list is the
shutting down of various sites due to various factors. I'd be
interested in hearing more of the BBS shutdown cases here, which are
oft-rumored on Internet but rarely discussed authoritatively. Anyway,
here's some strange actions by the State Dept. in shutting down a DEC
FTP site. I wonder if this was *after* that little DES FTP retrieval
demonstration before congress--did  that give some people ideas?

Anyway, this is disturbing, and the question always is `is this an
isolated action or a trend emerging'--if hostility reaches the people
who are responsible they are unlikely to do it again; even ivory tower
bureacrats have a large CYA instinct (that's how they get there and stay there).

Note that this was NOT the DECWRL machine but another at DEC.

===cut=here===

Subject: State Dept. shuts down open-access Internet DEC-Alpha via export ctl!
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 01:34:07 -0700
From: gnu@cygnus.com

DEC was the first company to put up one of their machines on the
Internet so that people could log in and port their (free or
commercial) software to it.  This is a great idea, which I'm
encouraging others to emulate.  But the government objects...

The machine was called axposf (AXP is the model, OSF is the operating
system) .pa.dec.com (in the Palo Alto office of the DEC computer
company).  Anyone could connect to it over the Internet, using a standard
protocol (telnet), and type to it, as if they were sitting at its console.

This was WONDERFUL for people who are working on software.  The AXP is
a new "64-bit" machine, and most software will need at least minor revisions
to accomodate it.  But most software authors and companies won't immediately
buy an AXP.  Making one available for casual use on the Internet means that
much more software would appear on the AXP sooner.

The State Dept. regulates "remote access to computers" as equivalent
to "export of computers".  I shudder to think what would happen if
they discovered that ordinary email can invoke processing remotely.

Unfortunately, the machine is at DEC, which is gunshy about export
problems, after getting a multimillion dollar fine (which I don't think
they ever challenged in court) because some customer trans-shipped a
Vax to Eastern Europe in the '70s.  A more modern company might simply
tell the State Dept. to shove it, and beat them in court over the
unconstitutionality of the export laws.  Are they seriously telling us
that we can't put a public access machine on the Internet?  Can we attach
phone lines to it instead?  If not, a few thousand BBS's running on 
fast machines are violating export laws...  If so, what is the specific
difference between the Internet and a phone line, that lets a company
distinguish a legal act of commerce or communication from an illegal act
of export?

John, can you make sure the Congressional committees hear about this?
As far as I know, they are still not on email.

        John Gilmore

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 02:12:04 -0700
From: paul@vix.com (Paul Vixie)
Message-Id: <9307070912.AA15402@gw.home.vix.com>
To: gdb@cygnus.com, mike@mbsun.mlb.org
Subject: fyi

...  I helped set up axposf.pa.dec.com before I left DECWRL, and I know that
the U. S. State Department demanded that it be shut down since there were no
access controls to prevent foreign nationals (even those we are not friendly
with right now, e.g., Iraq) from telnetting in and getting access.  Since the
DEC Alpha machines fit the legal description of "supercomputer", this access
amounts to "exporting munitions" even though the hardware doesn't move and the
crypt(3) sources aren't online.  Anyway the service is down right now and the
relevant folks at DECWRL and DECNSL are working hard to get it back up again
but meanwhile there are no guest DEC Alpha ("AXP") machines on the Internet
just now.

        [gw:i386] telnet axposf.pa.dec.com
        Trying 16.1.0.14...
        Connected to axposf.pa.dec.com.
        Escape character is '^]'.

        OSF/1 (axposf.pa.dec.com) (ttyp1)

        login: axpguest
        Password:
        Login incorrect
        login: Connection closed by foreign host.
        [gw:i386] date
        Wed Jul  7 02:00:08 PDT 1993

- --
Paul Vixie
                                     "Be neither a conformist or a rebel,
<paul@vix.com>                        for they are really the same thing.
decwrl!vixie!paul                     Find your own path, and stay on it." (me)

------- End of Forwarded Message

To: farber@pcpond.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: Re: When did the DECWRL machine get pulled off the net? 
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 12:13:41 PDT
From: Paul A Vixie <paul@vix.com>

it happened about two months ago, while i was still brian reid's employee.

note that DECWRL is still there, it's the corporate internet gateway.  what
got taken off the net was an AXP-OSF/1 guest machine.  the state department
said it was legally a supercomputer and since dec could not guarantee that
folks on the SD's DNP ("denied parties list") (Iraq, for example) would be
prevented from using it, they insisted that the machine be shut down.  we
got the notification from the lord-high-weenie of dec's legal department,
and since they more-or-less outranked us we had to pull the machine off the
net.

i don't work for dec any more so i'm free to discuss this.  brian reid, my
old boss, is not free to discuss this.  the whole thing makes me really really
angry.