From: wet!naga (Peter Davidson)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 17:48:36 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Reply to Michael's criticism of Tim
Message-ID: <m0oCAW8-000APVC@wet.uucp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 
I think Michael's reaction to Tim's experiment re
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.children deserves comment.
 
>Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 06:55:56 -0700
>From: Michael Ross <mross@antigone.com>
>Subject: Re: (fwd) GIFs--Now it can be told
>
>Tim,
>
>That was very manipulative, and did not achieve much.
 
Who was manipulated?  Those who reacted did so freely.
As Tim said, it was an experiment, not an attempt to
achieve anything.  The point was to see what would happen.
 
>It has also very little to do with the subject of this mailing list.
 
This mailing list is about encryption and other matters.  The use
of PGP to distribute erotica is thus a relevant topic.
 
>If anything, you discouraged at least one person I know who became
>genuinely interested in encryption and PGP as a result of your post.
 
Tough.
 
>As it turns out, you hid behind a pretty lame scheme, the only object
>of which seems to have been to make a fool out of as many people as
>possible.
 
I think Michael has missed the point.
 
>This is not how you accomplish constructive change, Tim.
>People resent being made to feel stupid, and they certainly will
>_not_ listen to what you have to say if you are belittling them.
 
I don't recall Tim's belittling anyone - except perhaps the
Net.Censors - who certainy deserve it.  I don't think we need
be too concerned about hurting their feelings.  After all,
they plan on doing worse to us.
 
>I happen to agree with those points you deigned to make in a
>straightforward manner. But you hid them so well behind trickery that
>they will go unnoticed.
 
On the contrary, were it not for the trickery some folks wouldn't
bother reading Tim's comments on this subject.
 
>Learn to deal with people, and you'll see
>they are willing to listen to reasonable arguments.
 
Ha!  Chortle!  Where you been all your life, Michael?
People listen to reasonable arguments only when it suits them to.
 
>If your parents didn't give you enough attention as a child, don't
>take it out on the world by trying to get some here... Learn to work
>_with_ people, not _against_ people, lest within ten years ...
 
Garbage.  If we are to go into spurious psychoanalysis then I think
Michael's post reveals that he is still fixated on pleasing his parents
by being a good little boy and not giving anyone any trouble.
 
Fact is, there are people in the world who want to restrict our
freedom and make us behave in ways they think best.  Fuck 'em all!