From: nobody@alumni.cco.caltech.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 15:10:25 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Private, legal-tender billing & refunding for online services
Message-ID: <9308172203.AA29532@alumni.cco.caltech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In "Twain" and other Internet business concepts there is a big
problem with establishing methods of payments and refunds that is 
convenient for both the customer and the business, while insuring the 
privacy of the customer.  AMIX, netcom, et. al. ask for credit card 
number, keep names and addresses of customers online, probably keep 
dossiers of services customers have bought, etc.  (Even if not 
purposefully, they frequently do system backups).  Just about every 
business has to have a way of recieving payment and distributing refunds 
to customers, in legal tender.  I'm interested in how to set up a 
physical mail drop/ATM protocol to allow customers to exchange legal 
tender for digital postage (or coupons, or greenstamps, or cash, or 
whatever we want to call it.  Digicash is ideal, but the nomenclature 
might have to depend on what is legal in various jurisdictions).

Here's my first cut:

	Customer signs up by sending legal tender (physical cash or
	money order) in mail, with anon physical mail drop to which the 
	stamp vendor replies with a floppy containing:
		* N digital stamps
		* other tools to connect to vendor (eg software
		to handle digital stamps, e-mail utilities,
		client software, etc.)

	Vendor also sets up a "bearer" offshore bank account
	or credit union account with ATM card.  A 
	PIN and password are sent to customer, needed to
	activate the card and digital stamps respectively.

	Customer pays up front for N digital stamps and the
	sign-up fee.  Digistamps obtained from various vendors 
	(in the S&H greenstamp scenario) can be deposited at will.  	
	For refunds, these stamps can be removed from the account,
	digitally converting to legal tender in the bearer bank
	account, where customer can remove at a max rate of
	(typically) $300/day via ATM.

Some problems: mail drops and bearer bank accounts may 
be a major hassle for customers of most service businesses.
Also for "normal" businesses many customers will be turned
off by the "shady" nature of the billing scheme.  (Cf. Cindy's 
recent response to Tim May's post on her bartering scheme).  There 
are major legal issues here: is a formal "bearer bank account" 
legal?  Are digital S&H greenstamps legal?  In what jurisdictions?