From: collins@newton.apple.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 22:26:56 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Wolf's got a thing or two to say
Message-ID: <9308091826.AA12189@newton.apple.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

The message in question was ascii armored with a missing checksum.  You can
trick PGP into ignoring the missing checksum by decrypting to the screen
(only).  It is an example of the fact that most messages are more work to
decrypt than they are worth upon reading (at least to me, since I do not
know or know of 'Wolf', 'Nancy', 'Rose', 'David' or 'Officer Cooper 171' or
any of their interactions).

Scott Collins         | "Few people realize what tremendous power there
                      |  is in one of these things."     -- Willy Wonka
......................|................................................
BUSINESS.   voice:408.862.0540  fax:974.6094   collins@newton.apple.com
Apple Computer, Inc.   1 Infinite Loop, MS 301-2C   Cupertino, CA 95014
.......................................................................
PERSONAL.   voice/fax:408.257.1746    1024/669687   catalyst@netcom.com


What follows is the de-armored text of the message "(fwd) Wolf's got a
thing or two to say":
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Hello friends.
I hope you are all well.
I am doing better today than before.
I get a little more livelier every day.
I am not in the mood to talk about the situation right now, though.
I would like to first of all thank each an every one of you for
the SCADS of mail I have recieved in response to my post about what
happened last Monday night.
I am not very good at those name things...where everyone who writes someone
gets listed in a thank you note.
And I am not very good at promptly answering mail either.
And I am not very good at ever getting around to answering all of the mail
I recieve.  
I wish that I were better about this, but I am simply too busy.
I have tried to send a thankyou note to as many of you as I can personally.
I know for a fact that there are many replies that I recieved that went
unanswered, and for that I hope no one takes it personally.
I am not in any way trying to say that every bit of individual support is not

as important as any other.  I read every piece of mail I get!  And I respond 
to it if I can.
I want for all of asar to know...I thank you for being here for me and I know
who is out there on my side!


now...I have something else that is on my mind...
I will admit that I have neglected to read every post in the thread that got
ignited by Nancy's RE: David post.  I know that I have not been able to locate
the post by Rose that keeps getting reffered to.  Oh well, too bad...I still
have some things to add on my behalf and simply because seom
something about this thread is very disturbing to me.
I am going to place a spoiler here b/c I am fearful that what I am about to
say my be flame bait.  I think it might offend some of you and I do not want
to get into a situation like that again.  I have carefully considered what I
would like to express, but I get t
 he feeling that there are some people who are looking for a debate no matter
what.  So if you want to square off and hash this thread to pieces, then of
course you are certainly free to do so, but I will be much more comfortable
with this if my $.02 are inserted right here and now...

************************************SPOILER************************************
this 
will
discuss
my
feelings
concerning
some 
of 
"did
she 
do
the
right
thing"
and 
some
of
the
symantic

discussions

that
are
taking
place
as
a 
result
of
some
responses
to
my
post
that is most certainly enough lines...


I agree with whoever in response to this thread posted that this is emotionally
charged stuff.  I have been a little charged by it myself.
Since I have not read Rose's part in this I cannot relate to that area of the
discussion.  Obviously Rose is upset that someone said something negative to
her.  I will try not to be cynical about it, b/c I am feeling a little bit
upity and I do not want to be rude.
I am simply a bit disturbed by Nancy's original post about my having
"gotten David arrested".
On my behalf...call it symantic quibble if you will, but it is what I did to
protect myself and I am angered that it seems to have been questioned even
no especially when even David didn't question it once he had a period to calm
himself.
No I have read where everyone thinks that for one reason or another I did the
right thing to protect myself.  But let's face it, guys.
David got himself arrested.
As for police and police brutality and fairness and justice, well, look at
the perr
peers around you.
Many of us have very little faith in the justice system of this USA.
If we had more maybe more of us would have tried a long time ago to seek out
the justice we deserve for the violations we have suffered.
I am not quick to call the police either, let me tell you.
My first experience with trying to get police to help me with being harrassed
by Dez (where I was being forced to practice prostitution and being beaten and
ravaged regularly) led me to getting punished by Dez since he had so 
conveniently bought off parts of the police department in my home town.  I
got the shit beat out of me first by the cops then by Dez.
So I know how fucked up the police an be.
Luckily this is a different town and a different life (well almost).
As I sit here and think of the policeman, officer Cooper 171, beating David's
head against the roof of his squad car my stomach is turning.
David is badly bruised and one of his eyes got cut.
Now I am sorry that he has had to endure this.
I think it is wrong...and I am almost certain that the force used to restrain
him was a bit excessive.  I know David and he will not fight impossible odds.
Still, I am thankful that he got a little taste of hell that night with
respect to what he put me through.  He is a little bit sensitive to what he
did to me.
None of this is meant to excuse or justify his behavior, b/c I find it totally
unacceptable and abhoring at the very least.
I am sorry for the fucking injustices of the world.
There are in fact many.
Like the girl who tried to seek justice for being gang raped but had a bad
reputation so they told he to get out of their faces that they had no time
for her little case.
That was not just a case, that was her life.
Just like Nancy's friend who served 2 years for a crime he probably did not
commit.
It is an injustice.
I think we all agree that injustices do happen in every area of our society.
What are we here for?
ARe we here with hopes that we can pinpoint the exact place where society
went wrong and change it?
no I do not think that is it (stop me if I am wrong)
I think we are here to give care and support to one another b/c we have all
suffered some pretty haneous injustices and the care we get from one another
often helps to serve some purpose towards ending that cycle.
As for Rose...was she being manipulative?
well, I do not know.
I have felt that way at times, but I have also done that at times myself...
I firmly believe in the childhood come-back "takes one to know one"
and I know that when I see someone manipulating it is only because I have
done it myself that I am able to see it.
And yes it sometimes takes a bit of tough love to break behaviors like that.
I think we all love Rose...I know that we feel for her...she seems to be in
so much pain...
I do not think we are here to pass judgement on her...
and I do not think we are here to keep someone from being taken in by a situatio
n that we may percieve as harmful to them (within the infrastructure of the
group).  
We have all heard at one time or another someone on here tell us about boundarie
s andd it is still up to us as individuals to set them.
I hope that from asar more than any other place there is more tolerance of
people learning that and feeling out just how to go about that.
And at the same time I think that this is the place where I first learned how
to enforce them as well, so I hope that all of asar understands that many of
us are still trying on some  of these new clothes....
as for the RE: David thread, well, I guess I have had my say.
I am looking at this from this perspective right now, and my perspectives are
always subject to change.
So if I haven't hurt anyone's feelings or run anyone off, then good.
I do not step out and speak my mind like this often and it always feels good
when I do...
flame me if you must
just put a spoiler in it so that we will have some warning
I am up and down right now
so I am tyring to be careful about some of the stufff I read.

that is enough ranting for tonight I think.
wolf
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