From: nobody@soda.berkeley.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 93 14:23:12 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spooks reading the list
Message-ID: <9309112115.AA04714@soda.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


pmetzger@lehman.com writes:

>Its entirely possible that there are FBI agents on this list -- I
>proceed on that assumption every day. Its also possible that there are
>agents provocateur. However, I fully assure you that many of us are
>legitimate anarchists of long standing, most of us being of the
>capitalist anarchist persuasion.
>
>I'll fully agree that arguing for anarchy with the general public
>won't work at the current time -- and I agree that our image is
>like EFF and CPSR. I for one don't see any reason to hide my politics,
>although I try not to make an issue of it.
>
>Perry

In fact, there is at least one NSA agent on this list. Whether 
he/she is on our side or not, who knows? This message, a defense of 
the NSA, was posted here not long ago. I don't know if anyone else 
noticed this at the time, but take a look:

*From:   IN%"remail@tamsun.tamu.edu" 28-AUG-1993 06:02:47.29
*To:     IN%"cypherpunks@toad.com"
*CC:     
*Subj:   NSA & the Crypto-Zionist Myth of "Public Key"!

*>I'm rather surprised that the most significant piece of evidence in favor of
*>the "NSA has cracked PGP" theory is that no one's put a bullet through Phil
*>Zimmerman's head.  
*
*Excuse me, but I'm getting tired of this silly paranoia.  NSA
*is not Evil Incarnate Central, and we are not fighting a Valiant War 
                                    ==

We? WE! Do you suppose that was a Freudian slip, or did he mean to 
say it like that? Whoever he is, he works for the NSA. Did anyone else
notice this at the time?

So, tell us. Have they cracked PGP?

*We Are Fated to Lose.  The NSA are a  bunch of Americans who went
*to school & college with the rest of us, and share our communities
*with us.  Most of them joined NSA to fight totalitarian Communism, and 
*most of them are sympathetic with values most Americans share when they 
*bother to think about them, like freedom, privacy, etc.  Sure, NSA has
*been caught up in the Cold War habits of secrecy, bureaucracy, and
*an ingrained habit to control information.  It's also almost surely
*caught up in the same kind of bureaucratic incompetence we see
*in the rest of the U.S. Federal government (most of the DoD, the space 
*programs, the BATF, the FBI, etc.)  Does a $40+ crypto-voice-chip with 
*an obvious trap door look like Malicious Plot to Destroy All Strong
*Crypto and Take Over The World, or does it look like an
*a half-competent, half-hearted attempt to retain Cold War era 
*capabilities they had gotten used to?
*
*NSA is going through the same crisis of goals as the rest of
*the Cold War establishment.  Their mission, if they have any left at
*all, has changed radically, and they know it.  While it
*may be "in the best interest of NSA" to maintain control over
*NSA employees are also Americans, community members, family
*members, etc.  They don't typically go around murdering hackers
*they don't like.  Nor would that accomplish anything for them --
*RSA was published internationally long ago, and PGP is now
*scattered at sites all over the world, with new versions being
*hacked on in nearly a dozen countries.   
*
*The biggest problem I've encountered talking to various
*people about implementing encryption is that they think
*cypherpunks are a bunch of paranoid nuts, so only paranoids
*would want to do things like use digital cash for their
*semi-legal barter schemes.  Your expression of surprise that 
*the NSA hasn't offed Phil Zimmerman just confirms their suspicions.
*How can I convince them that cryptography is not just for paranoids?
*The rest of us are concerned about things like protecting and
*enhancing our privacy and freedom, and there's nothing silly
*or paranoid about that.
*
*But now that you mention it -- Shamir does operate out of Tel 
*Aviv.  Obviously he built RSA with a hole in it, and NSA is the
*main arm of the Crypto-Zionist conspiracy of Jewish Planetary Hegemony!  
*And he didn't publish "Differential Cryptanalysis of the DES" until
*non-Zionist bankers got ahold of DES.  It's all clear now!
*
*> I think that, personally, the public-key stuff's gotta have some sort 
*> of a hole in it that nobody's thought of yet outside of spook central.
*
*I think your head has to have some sort of a hole in it.  Perhaps the
*NSA's work?

From the sound of this, the NSA is just a little bit testy!

What's the matter, spook biz gone to hell in the post-cold-war era?

We must be winning...   :-)