From: rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 21:48:07 PDT
To: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: META: Re:  a horrible conspiracy revealed!
In-Reply-To: <9309221747.AA27907@netcom5.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <9309230444.AA13578@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Timothy C. May () writes:
> 
> 
> > I was about to do an ::exclude on this thread, when I realised that it was
> > the cypherpunks list and not the extropians.  Any chance of cypherpunks
> > running the extropian list software?  Or maybe it does already?
> > 
> > --                                  ____
> > Richard Kennaway                  __\_ /    School of Information Systems
> 
> The "Extropians list software" is not currently being run on the
> Cypherpunks list, nor any other list. The software was developed by
> Ray Cromwell and Harry Shapiro, and was based apparently on original
> list software developed by Perry Metzger (yes, our own Perry). 

  Actually the code was developed from scratch except for Perry's
"X-Extropian-Date" and header format. Perry's code with minor
modification (message numbers, configuration files, and digestification) 
form the old list software. This would still be good software to
run Cypherpunks off of. Atleast it would add a Reply-To: line.
 
> Ray is on our list, Harry once was (haven't seen him post lately,
> so...), and Perry of course is. They may comment also.
> 
> The software allows a variety of modes, special commands, etc. One
> such command is:
> 
> ::exclude user foobar.baz.edu
>
> Eric Hughes is aware of the Extropians list software and mentioned
> recently that is may be released a la GNU, that is, available.

  The list software still isn't ready for general usage yet. I still
haven't finished the remote list administration system, the "moderated
threads" I talked about, or most importantly, the docs. As a consequence,
I would have to give extensive support to anyone running it. Which is fine
as long as they are willing to pay me.

> On the other hand, the Extropians would like defray their development
> costs, so they are considering various ideas. I'm sure Ray and Harry
> can comment.

  Yes. I am mainly trying to defray the cost of devoting time from my
school work to development/support and what I could be earning if I had
a real job. However, I doubt Harry/ExI is going to sell the software
since it's too much of a hassle. The major cost for them is the cost of
running the list from a commercial unix site. (we have to pay for CPU/Disk
space/mail bandwidth)

  One of the neat things we are thinking of doing is digicash. Each user
incurs a $5-10 cost for their yearly use of the list. Then there
are the special features our software offers (which require a lot of
CPU) A current proposal is to charge a subscription fee (~$5-10) per year
and give each user electronic money and an account. List operations
bill you and mail requires digital postage. Users are free to trade their
cash on the "free market" within the list or on the HEX Exchange, etc.
To prevent list admins from monitoring the motion of e-money, some form
of Chaum-like cash could be used. This provides a real backing for
digicash which is the "goods and services" of the list software. Theoretically,
my software can network allowing users to spend their cash anywhere it is used.
(e.g. spend cash on cypherpunks or extropians list operations assuming
cypherpunks was running my software) I'm assuming none of this is illegal.

  I'll talk more about this in the future when it comes even close
to being implemented. Right now it is just an idea "on the table."

 
-- Ray Cromwell        |    Engineering is the implementation of science;    --
-- EE/Math Student     |       politics is the implementation of faith.      --
-- rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu  |                         - Zetetic Commentaries      --