From: Dark <unicorn@access.digex.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:22:40 PDT
To: kwaldman@BBN.COM
Subject: Re: Net Requlation
Message-ID: <199310272219.AA09423@access.digex.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


->  kwaldman@bbn.con says:

        Say the best way to go is to become a perpetual tourist. That is
you don't have US citzenship and thus are not subject to it's taxes and
other nosy laws. [Not that other government's don't have nosier laws].
Anyway
 
        1. If you don't have US citzenship, how do you get a passport? (Buy
it on sale from the Czech republic or what?)

Passports from many nations are available for real basic requirements.
By your use of the language "Perpetual Traveler" I assume you're talking
about the SCOPE international (i.e. Dr. W. G. Hill) materials.

The concept is this:  States like Liechtenstein (My home country) Thailand,
Lebaon, Luxembourg, Italy (the list goes on) are fairly easy to obtain
passports from.  Many countries issue "passports" that are seperate from
actual citizenship.  If you thus hold several passports, and maintain
residence for (say 6 months) a period of time, you are a perpetual
traveller, and not subject to taxation, military service, prosecution, death
....  All the usual.  Snake oil, it cures what ails ya.

The problem is that is doesn't quite work this way.  What ole DOC Hill is
saying isn't exactally unture, but it is misleading.

->  kwaldman@bbn.com :

        1. If you don't have US citzenship, how do you get a passport? (Buy
it on sale from the Czech republic or what?)

<-

Well, in many countries, Liechtenstein a prime example, a sizeable investment
employing a certain amount of citizens is enough to "buy" you a passport.
Other channels (less up front) exist.  A sizeable account in (the prince's
bank) can get you a passport as well.

-> kwaldman :

        2.  Where do you live?  I mean I love to travel but after 3 or 4 weeks
of it I'm ready to settle down and hibernate for a long while. [Especially now
with a wife and 2 sons, I'd last about 2 days traveling :-)]  Somewhere
were I don't have to get thrown in jail for thinking the wrong thoughts.
[Which given the nature of this list most of us do, except of course our
NSA monitors :-)]

<-

The concept is that you maintain several residences and spend time in each.
Expense is obviously a problem.

-> kwaldmaan :

        3.  Are the TELECOM connections there yet?  I saw this weeks
Economist and it looks promising but last time I was in Europe some of
my phone connections were less than perfect. [Even parts of the US leave
something to be desired].  I personally need a good phone line
(especially if I'm hundreds of miles from my customer), and a minimum of
56kbaud link for my computer.

<-

This is a case by case basis.  Germany is pretty good, but on the whole
things are worse than the U.S.

->  kwaldman :

        4.  Customer interaction.  This is a problem, if you work on computer
systems that are unique or program custom software for these systems,
customer interaction is very important ( and in other areas I'm sure).
Yes email, video conferencing (expensive!) help but you either need to
be  there or have very good VR (which I have yet to see, this doesn't
mean much  as I haven't seen bad VR yet either).

<-

Expense is going to be the key problem in general in any kind of tax exile
situation.  You're going to need to have the kind of business that can\
be run from anywhere without much need for local.  This is difficult in
Europe in general, but obviously it depends on your exact location and the
nature of your business.  Some might argue that the proximity of nations
makes for less travel expense in general and nullfies the cost of video
conferencing etc.... Again, specifics and your mileage may vary.

-> kwaldman :
        The one plus is that I believe there is still time (5-10) years
before the costs outweigh the benifits of living in the US and thus
there is time to plan things like what country to live in, which bank
to use in the channel isles and let technological advance solve some
of the bandwidth problems.
 
                Karl Waldman
<-

I tend to agree with your assesment here.  If the current trend to centralized
power continues, I'm going to head home myself.  It's much nicer to be a
powerholder in a partially socialized nation than a power seeker.

The biggest problem is much as you put it.  The international data concerns
are much greater in Europe, and it is expensive to estlablish an alternative
residence and citizenship.

General comments:

When you refer to not having U.S. citizenship, and being a perpetual tourist,
are you refering to not holding ANY citizenship? or just one other than U.S.?

There is a distinct difference between being stateless and a perpetual tourist.
You might consider that the U.S. has a fairly low taxation rate compared to
other nations, especially the European nations that provide extensive social
programs.

Many nations will not allow you to dissove your nationality without consent.
See Generally, Convention on Certain Questions Relating to Conflict of 
Nationality Laws (1930).  See Also, Esphahanian v. Bank Tejarat, AWD
31-157-2 (1983), 77 AJIL 646 (1983).

Some nationalities are not often recognized when they are percieved to be
for tax purposes (Liechtenstein has had this problem with the U.S. for years)

Cypherpunk hitch:  When indeed crypto is regulated, and if privacy degrades
to the point in the U.S. where it's not worth staying here anymore, where
will you go and how?  Personally I love the fact that I hold two passports
and money abroad.  Privacy is a lot easier to maintain as such.


-uni- (Dark)