From: Andy Wilson <ajw@Think.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 15:47:15 PST
To: hawkwind@dink.foretune.co.jp
Subject: Disruptive members
In-Reply-To: <199311290712.QAA06834@dink.foretune.co.jp>
Message-ID: <9311292342.AA00834@custard.think.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   From: hawkwind@dink.foretune.co.jp
   Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 16:12:13 +0900

   [...]

   I liken people such to a situation where a group of friends are sitting
   talking around a fireplace deep in creative discussion and a Felini style
   circus band starts marching through the room playing at full volume. If
   this was in your home, you would throw them out; if at a ski lodge, the
   management would throw them out; if in a public place, the police would
   disperse them for "disturbing the peace" (have you ever wondered WHY all
   civilizations have such laws?!?). Yet in cyberspace, people toss out
   phrases like "freedoms", and "rights" to excuse such behavior apparently
   without much consideration to the "responsibilities" inherent in those
   phrases.

I have seen a man arrested ostensibly for "disturbing the peace", who was
actually just giving a speech.  The charges were thrown out.  If you don't
like free speech,  don't log in.  The U.S. Constitution and the Declaration
of Independence state very clearly that our form of government is based on
the recognition of human rights,  not responsibilities.  You might be able
to find a system more to your liking in China or North Korea for a little
while longer.

   At a conference recently,  I spent over two hours talking to the fellow who
   runs a large Moo about exactly this problem. He is also faced with such
   people (although thankfully not quite so extreme), and his "society" is
   having a VERY difficult time trying to develop procedures for dealing with
   such people. He told me about a particularly nasty situation where some
   girl in his Moo was "virtually raped" by another member. The Moo was
   horrified, but could not figure out how to deal with the culprit. 

This is another example of the dilution of the word "rape" until it is
utterly meaningless.  You cannot rape someone via mail.  You can harass
them but that is NOT rape.  You are demeaning victims of real rapes by
using the word in an attempt to justify your authoritarian views.  I'm
sure that the victim of this harassment was upset and I'm sorry about
that,  but calling it rape is a load of crapola.

   [...]

   >From reading recent postings, I gather that many feel as I once did, that
   disruptive people will just flame out and go away. And once that was so,
   but no longer. I have seen over 15 groups laid waste in the past two years
   by such people. They did not go away, but rather gloated over the deceased
   corpse of the group. Many of the members of those groups I have not seen
   again on the nets. I now firmly believe that such chaotic people have to be
   dealt with and promptly. I am still unclear how to deal with them, but I do
   know that time is of the essence. The longer they are allowed to pollute
   your group, the deeper the cancer runs affecting everyone's perspective.

All you have to do is ignore them.  Put them in your kill file.  It works.
If people are just too stupid to use such an obvious tool,  then they
probably aren't capable of "creative discussion" anyway.  Harumph.

After all the speech criminals are rounded up, what next?  Got any ethnic
groups in mind?

   I look forward to any constructive comments.

Andy