From: Jim choate <ravage@wixer.bga.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 12:08:27 PST
To: greg@ideath.goldenbear.com (Greg Broiles)
Subject: Re: Archiving mail-lists...
In-Reply-To: <64qLgc1w165w@ideath.goldenbear.com>
Message-ID: <9401231824.AA22631@wixer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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> Jim choate <uunet!wixer.bga.com!ravage> writes:
>
> > [Mentions doing Usenet-on-CDROM, and potentially including mailing
> > lists like C-punks in the archive copies.]
>
> 1.  I believe someone in Canada is already doing Usenet-on-CDROM,
> minus alt.binaries.pictures.erotica (and perhaps some others).
>
> 2.  If the cost for your net connection is usage based instead of
> flat-fee, a feed from PageSat might be cheaper. They've recently come out
> with new hardware that's a little cheaper than the old stuff. (The net
> connection would still be nice for mail, IP connectivity, blah blah.)
>
> 3.   You should at least think about how you will deal with copyright
> issues. I believe that the folks in Canada avoid redistributing a.b.p.e
> to as to avoid legal hassles from the copyright holders for the pictures
> posted there. Also, people posting original works have a copyright in
> them; and they may not want their works included in your archive.
> (There's a thread about this in misc.legal.moderated.)
>
> 4.    Morally, I'm divided between thinking you should ask the owner of
> every message (its author) for permission to reprint; and thinking that
> doing so is too heavy a burden, and that the utility of the CD-ROM is
> more important than the harm done to the IP rights of the authors. I
> don't think you need the permission of people on the list who don't write
> messages. I also don't think you need the permission of the "list owner",
> particularly where no creative control is exercised.
>
>
> - --
> Greg Broiles                   "Sometimes you're the windshield,
> greg@goldenbear.com             sometimes you're the bug." -- Mark Knopfler
>
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My class C slip feed costs $300 to setup and thereafter is $75/month.
Individual accounts are $75/yr. This is the same fee schedule that I will be
charging those who would like accounts on ssz.com (my system).

If a person distributes a copyrighted material over a world wide distribution
network like internet and doesn't ask for notification of archiving or some
form of fair use fee I doubt any claims they would have will stand up in
court. I am not trying to make money off this venture and I am not making
money in particular from their specific work so they would have a hard time
maing a case of theft of services or plageriasm (I am making no claimi that
it belongs to me). Besides libraries routinely make backups of material for
educational use, I had planned on doing the same.

Since I am an individual (who some would claim to being amoral at best) I
plan on at least attempting a full archive of every public access byte that
comes into ssz.com over a one year period. Because of costs constraints I may
change to tape but don't see this as a real eventuality. My system sells
access to internet and we do not alter or monitor any material that comes
over it. While I would assisst any law enforcement agency who feels that a
illegality has been committed I doubt strongly that a case could be made
against me personaly (without also starting prosecution against the other
.com sites out there w/ similar policies - bga.com and ripco.com come to mind
immediatly). This would be similar to suing Ma Bell because a pedophile used
the phone to transmit graphics.

I already have access to a satellite link, but thanks for the suggestion.

Seems to me that if a person places a post on a public access newsgroup
withoug a copyright it automaticaly becomes public domain and they loose all
commercial rights to it. I would be interested in a public discussion of thsi
point and will move over to the newsgroup you mentioned.

I was aware of the Canadian project, there is obviously room for more such
projects.

Thanks for your input.