From: wcs@anchor.ho.att.com (bill.stewart@pleasantonca.ncr.com +1-510-484-6204)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 20:49:47 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  UNSUBSCRIBERS PLEASE READ
Message-ID: <9402160442.AA09694@anchor.ho.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Perry posted a note saying that "Internet mailing lists are run by 
HUMAN BEINGS, NOT MACHINES", and that you should EXPECT humanly-slow
behavior when you subscribe to a mailing list.  I disagree.

Cypherpunks is run by a human (thanks, Eric!), but many or most mailing
lists out there on the net are low-level managed by machines named
majordomo or listserv or foo-request, and a large percentage of users
expect the rapid response of servers like that, at least for getting off lists
if not for getting on.  I was briefly on the sf-raves mailing list,
which has an even higher volume than cypherpunks, and it was very nice
to be able to send mail to the majordomo server and get off it,
and one of the automagic notices mentioned sf-raves-calendar which
is a once-a-week announcement.  I understand how people getting
flooded with cpunks mail must feel, especially if they're using brain-damaged
mailers that can't defend them.

Cypherpunks makes this problem additionally difficult because of one of
Eric's self-defense mechanisms for the list, which makes messages
appear to come from their authors rather than *cypherpunks*.
This is good for bouncegrams and non-germane replies, but means that
users of vanilla Mail can't just do a 'd cypherpunks' and trash them all.

Users should NOT expect slow human-speed behavior from mailing lists,
and they don't. (This doesn't mean they should be totally surprised by it,
either, since machines can generate garbage out faster than you can
dispose of the stuff :-).  It would be nice if, at minimum, there were
several administrative addresses, including a cypherpunks-unsubscribe
and maybe a cypherpunks-request that autoreplies with an
	"Are you sure you want 50-100 exciting messages per day,
	with an occasionally slow turnaround time for unsubscribing?
	If so, reply to this message"
which goes to cypherpunks-yes-really-subscribe or some such address.
(As well as forwarding requests saying "unsubscribe" in them to 
cypherpunks-unsubscribe.)

		Bill, surrounded by depressingly stupid machines