From: tramm@lsmsa.nsula.edu (Tramm "root" Hudson)
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 94 17:11:16 PST
To: 72114.1712@compuserve.com (Sandy)
Subject: Re: REAL WORLD ENCRYPTION
In-Reply-To: <940213233835_72114.1712_FHF71-1@CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <9402140204.AA08901@lsmsa.nsula.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


> I would like to start a new thread.  I want to know what the
> people on this list intend to do with cryptography in the "real
> world."  There are a number of Cypherpunk projects on the drawing
> board or already deployed:  Stego, encrypted phones, encrypted
> and anonymous remailers, stealth PGP, a digital bank, etc.  Do
> the folks on this list intend to use these tools, or is your
> interest only theoretical?

Well Sandy, I plan to use these tools we've developed.  I use PGP on
a regular basis (my public key is available on most of the key servers
or my .plan) for encryption of mail and sensitive source.  I do not
sign my messages, nor do I collect everyone else's keys -- for the
bulk of the things I do, it is pointless.

Encrypted phones, remailers, and such are of little use to me.  Stego
could be usefull, but I have not had the opportunity to necessitate it.
Stealth PGP?  Sure -- it's a good idea, but anyone can strip the
"Begin PGP data block" messages.

> I'm not looking for simple "yes" or "no" comments, however.  I'm
> interested in finding out how much you are willing to reorganize
> your life in order to take advantage of these techniques.  I want
> to know what factors would increase or decrease your use of
> cryptographic products and services.  What do you want? What do
> you fear?

My life does not depend on the cryptographic techniques we hvae
developed.  I would hate for -anyone- to have to depend on the work
of others so much.  If I needed, I would install a new vresion of
sendmail to automatically encrypt all outgoing/local mail; I would
use the encrypted filesystems; I would use the encrypted cores that
someone has proposed.  But -- nothing I do right now needs that
sort of security.

> My interest is more than academic.  I am one of the Cypherpunks
> involved in creating a digital bank.  If the 700 or so people on
> this list wouldn't open an account in a digital bank, chances are
> no one else would either.  The same goes, of course, for secure
> phones, encrypted e-mail, and all the rest.

Of course not!  If we wouldn't use a digital bank, then who in the
regular public would?  What they don't realize is that most of the
banking now adays is electronic and just the same as the digital banks
we have discussed.  I would open an account in a digital bank on a
few conditions:

1)	The currency could be tendered elsewhere.  I hate the "tokens"
that arcades and casinos use.  If I can't use the money I store in
the digital bank for something other than "digital postage," then it
is of no use to me.

2)	I would have some insurance that my "money" is safe and that
I can retrieve it at any time.  Just like the FDRC insures member banks,
I would like some digital version of that.  Will all the banks have
separate currencies?  Or will there only be one master bank with slaves
across the net?

> What Real World concerns you have about crypto?

	Clipper scares me.  I don't like the idea of the government
regulating encryption.  Banks and finaces, I have no problem with, but
cryptography really scares me.  Why do they want to be able to read my
love letters (or my seditions email, or anything else of mine)?  Most
of my files are 0755 anyway, so they are free to read them.
	Another thing which bothers me -- most of the people I work
with and the other users on my machines have their umask set to 7077.
Why?  What do they have to hide? I leave my umask at 7022 and only
chmod go-rx on the files I don't want anyone else to read.  With
encryption, it is just one step further.

> Talk to me.

Sure -- just as long as someone is listening.
> 
	Tramm "Will ramble for net access" Hudson

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tramm@chartres.ee.tulane.edu                 tramm@lsmsa.nsula.edu
lshud7354@alpha.nsula.edu                    tbhudso@cs.sandia.gov

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