From: Mark Hittinger <bugs@netsys.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 20:23:36 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re: rEaL wOrLd EnCrYpTiOn
Message-ID: <199402160417.AA08752@netsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




> Sandy writes:
>I would like to start a new thread.  I want to know what the
>people on this list intend to do with cryptography in the "real
>world."
>...
>My interest is more than academic.  I am one of the Cypherpunks
>involved in creating a digital bank.

Sandy -

   In the real world there are already secret banks.  There are already
forms of untraceable cash and forms of completely fungible money.  These
techniques are very ancient and time honored.  They are well understood.
Many of them have stood the test of time and have not been compromised by
various incarnations of police states.

   Given the existence of efficient, accessible, secret, and widely accepted
monetary exchange I can't really see the need for a digital bank from the
privacy side.  I can't really see anyone who uses the current techniques
being interested in a new experimental form unless they are techno-junkies.
Nevertheless, please continue.  Some of us are techno-junkies.

   It is already well known to privacy fanatics that you should not use
credit cards, debit cards, checks, atm cards, or other forms of electronic
money.  All transactions are logged and are easily analyzed.

   Astute people cash their pay check at the employer's bank and pay cash for
everything.  Admittedly, this is somewhat paranoid, but on the other hand it
is fun to defeat the monolithic database builders who want to make money off
of selling information that belongs to you.

   Cypherpunks must concentrate on solving problems that are true problems
now.  Do not spend time creating a variant of an existing/workable/fun
solution.  Email privacy was a true problem.  Clear text on your pc's hard
drive was a true problem.

   Right now there is the well known problem of ethernet sniffers and the 
trivial security breaches that can occur.  A telnet/lat traffic encrypter
is needed badly by the Sun/Dec/HP world.  Novell needs something badly as
well.

   Cellular phones desperately need something.  The masses just have NO
IDEA how badly cellular needs something!  Fax machines need a variant of
PGP.  Pagers probably need it too.

   I think the larger issue that cypherpunks need to blue sky about is wether
they will be content with a role as grey-area political criminals underneath 
the boot of an ever growing police state.  Can crypto be more than a defensive
weapon?  What would people be defending against?

   Crypto can do some things but it won't be the total solution.  In the end
we need to strengthen the rights of the little guy and devise ways to dilute
any new state powers that are created by technology.  Crypto is just one
compartment on our batman utility belt.

   People always argue that criminals would use these tools.  I'm certain
of it.  Strengthening the state's hand to fight criminals always screws the
little guy.  The criminals all go to work for the state when its powerful
enough!  We've seen this over and over.
---------
I'd like a 250 Mhz 128 bit hybrid processor with 64 meg of 8 way interleaved
memory, a 10 megabyte per second i/o channel, two 3 gig hard disks, two dat
drives with compression, and a large diet coke.
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