From: "Jon 'Iain' Boone" <boone@psc.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 05:55:14 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
In-Reply-To: <9402102226.AA09203@deathstar.iaks.ira.uka.de>
Message-ID: <9402111344.AA08231@igi.psc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



danisch@ira.uka.de (Hadmut Danisch)  writes:
>
> I never said this. Why do you think it is the only defense?
> Why do you all mix ideas with calls for killing people?
> Isn't it a difference whether I publish an idea or whether
> I pray killing people? Is this allowed in your country?

  In this country you are not allowed to "encite" people to commit crimes.
  So, while I can talk about how you might go about killing someone, I can't
  directly call for you to do so.  Providing information on *how* to build a
  bomb (provided it isn't classified national security-type stuff, like a
  nuclear weapon or poison gas) isn't illegal, but actually encouraging
  people to go out and do so is.

> You all seem to have a nice patent for defense against
> Nazis. Why don't you tell/sell us this patent? It could
> be very helpfull. 

  I'm sorry.  We don't have a patent on how to fight Nazism.  In fact, there
  are Neo-Nazis here in the U.S. as well.  As far as I know, the American
  Nazi party is still active and has been since 1930's.  And the Knights of
  the Ku Klux Clan have been around since the end of the American Civil War
  in 1865 or so.  

> Don't you believe that we are interested in a free press?

  Yes.  I believe that the majority of the German citizens believe in a free
  press.  I suspect that the Neo-Nazi's only believe in it while they are
  not in power -- call it a hunch.

> Don't you believe that we want to fight against Naziism?

  Absolutely!  Germany has a number of problems which it needs to overcome.
  As much as I have looked forward to the day when the two "Republics" would
  once again be one, I think that it is a very tough situation for the 
  Budesrepublic to take on.  A number of things may need to be done in order
  to stabalize the economy and reduce un-employment.  Restricting the influx
  of new immigrants may well be a reasonable policy which will help your
  great country along to it's goal.  Do not let the fact that the Nazis are
  calling for deportation prevent you from doing some hard analysis of what
  the benefits would be of a temporary (say, 10 - 15 years) of immigration.

  As we Americans are learning rapidly, it is just as important that you 
  assimilate the immigrants into the larger culture as it is that you let
  them in in the first place.  You'll find that assimilation is the *best*
  defense against the Nazis.  It's not a fool-proof mechanism, but when the
  German people think of themselves as one, regardless of where their ancestors
  came from, the Nazis will have a hard time appealing to most people.

> How do you fight against your Nazis?

  Unfortunately, in the past two or three decades, poorly.  Not only do we
  tolerate them, but by tolerating their counterparts in the "multicultural"
  wing of the New Left, we increase the appeal that the Nazis hold for the
  majority of the population... *sigh*

> What is the use of press freedom if the press doesn't use it?

  Not much.

> I'm sure you don't see much about Germany at all. Where did you get
> all those stories?

  God knows.  I recommend listening to Deutsche Welle on the shortwave if
  you want to catch some news on Germany.  

> Is this what you call press freedom?

  Nope.  And it's probably the primary reason why most people in the U.S.
  who are on this list are here.  If we didn't feel that the governments
  were actively trying to prevent us from using cryptography, we probably
  wouldn't have bothered to join.

 Jon Boone | PSC Networking | boone@psc.edu | (412) 268-6959 | PGP Key # B75699
 PGP Public Key fingerprint =  23 59 EC 91 47 A6 E3 92  9E A8 96 6A D9 27 C9 6C