From: Ron Davis <rondavis@datawatch.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 09:38:57 PST
To: dmandl@panix.com
Subject: Re: Mac encryption
Message-ID: <9402231237.aa14589@gateway.datawatch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> From: Ron Davis <rondavis@datawatch.com>
>The invention (discovery?) of public-key crypto changed the world, and
>makes practical everyday use of crypto infinitely easier.  It also makes
>the kinds of specific things cypherpunks are interested in much more
>practical (or POSSIBLE).  If you correspond with hundreds of people on a
>regular basis, including people you don't know and people you may send
>something to once and never deal with again, it is impractical to say the
>least to have to generate and exchange keys.  That's the basic argument.
>Why was public key crypto invented at all?  Why are people interested in
>using it?  Practically, it's really fundamentally different from symmetric
>crypto, which is of very limited use in the situation we're all in now
>(anonymous communication, the net, quick hit-and-run dissemination of
>information, digital signatures, etc., etc.).  PGP also has the "web of
>trust" structure built in.  This is worlds away from basic symmetric
>crypto.
>
>This is really basic stuff, so I'm hesitant to discuss it on the list.

        I wasn't saying that PK wasn't important, or the most important.
        I agree it is a great thing.  I was just saying that I thought
        cypherpunks was also about non-PK crypto.  I also ventured to think
        it wasn't just about PGP, but all crypto used for purposes of
        insuring individual freedom and privacy.
        

>>         Maybe I have the wrong idea about "our purposes", please correct me
>>         if I'm wrong.
>
>If you're relatively new to the list, try to get your hands on some of the
>basic cypherpunk material, like tcmay's Crypto-Anarchy manifesto, the
>cypherpunk articles in Wired or Whole Earth Review, etc.  There are many
>different views represented on the list, but I think we all agree on the
>significance and importance of pk crypto.

        I read the Wired article.  I've also read the FAQ.  Missed May's
        manifesto is it available via ftp?

>
>Symmetric is fine for hiding things from your boss.  PK is intended for
>different purposes.

        But isn't hiding things from your boss important in the
        cypherpunks worldview, even if people choose not to use
        PGP?

        Seems to me that the fact is many, if not most, people will
        not use PGP because of is outlaw status.  Many of us are attracted
        to it because of that, but many people aren't.  We can still
        advocate methods that people are comforatable with that will
        further our goals.

        If I'm wrong about the very basics of the list, then I guess this
        discussion is good, because I've been around for a couple of months
        at least and this is the idea I got.
___________________________________________________________________________
"I want to know God's thoughts...the rest are details."
                                           -- Albert Einstein
_________________________________________
Ron Davis                                  rondavis@datawatch.com       
Datawatch, Research Triangle Park, NC      (919)549-0711