From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 18:48:31 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (cypherpunks)
Subject: Re: Clipper (Re: Dorothy Denning)
In-Reply-To: <9403020738.AA12338@anchor.ho.att.com>
Message-ID: <199403030249.SAA28948@netcom9.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


bill.stewart@pleasantonca.ncr.com +1-510-484-6204 sez:
> 
> I disagree.  My opinion is that the axioms involved are

Me too.  I would like to substitute a bit.

> 1) We're in power, and want to stay there.

No argument there.  :-)

> 2) Some kinds of technology greatly enhance our power if we control them.

	2) Some kinds of technology greatly enhance the power of those that
		 are ruthless and dangerous.

> 3) Crypto Technology is a major threat to our power unless we control it.

	2) Crypto technology could well be a major threat to the world's safety
	   unless we control it.

> 4) Maybe we can stop it if we act quickly, at a cost to society
>	   that's low enough that we won't cause a major revolt

	4) Maybe we can stop it if we act quickly while still providing
		 society the benefits it wishes.

> 5) If we pull that off, the success will help consolidate our power.

	5) If we pull that off, the success will help protect society from
		 being disrupted, damaged or held hostage by those wishing power.

> 6) The public believes almost anything we tell them, at least for a while,
>	   as long as we sound sincere.

	6) The public feels we are interested in their private lives and we
		 must change that perception toward our actual concerns.

> 
> > Clipper is just the kind of woefully clueless thing people in 
> > that position would come up with.
> 
> It's not at all clueless.  It's offensive, unAmerican, and probably 
> won't win, but there's a subtle malignity to it that's almost
> Nixonesque in its cleverness, and it's tacky enough they may be 
> able to pull it off.

It's not at all clueless, offensive or unAmerican and it still probably
won't win.  It represents nothing more or less than a studied and
earnest offer of a method that can compromise so as to give society the
potential benefit of the technology while also giving us the protection
that it is and has been their job to give.  All that they can do in fact,
and they know this, is to attempt to persuade people to voluntarily leave
them with that ability.

The most valuable thing that Clipper is doing I think is showing the
unscrupulous and scrupulous within government (and I still believe the
unscrupulous to be a small subset even though I think there are entire
agencies without scruples) what messing with the people in the fashion
of unconvicted forfiture, can cause.  I mean c'mon, who is going to
believe that a group who can and will take all of a person's belongings
and sell them before convicting the person and not return them on
aquittal will stop short of arbitrary, fishing expedition privacy
invasion?  I hope that those in the NSA, the intelligence community and
the military, who see the now potentially disasterous consequences of
the actions of a few of their cousins in government like the DEA, will
slap them around a bit.  They could ya' know.  If it were not for
clowns like those who have seeemed to a very large segment of society
to have run totally amuck I think there would not be the sturm and
drang that this issue now stirs up in groups like this.  You men and
women in and close to government who are sincerely concerned about
crypto for good reason don't have to look very far to see who created
this problem for you.  What comes 'round goes 'round is the lesson
here.  I just hope the lesson isn't as harmful to student and teacher
alike as it has the potential to be.



Peace,

Bob

-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-354-8021


           "I used to be different.  But now I'm the same."


--------------PGP 1.0 or 2.0 public key available on request.------------------