From: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 94 21:29:19 PST
To: rcain@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Dorothy Denning
In-Reply-To: <199403020410.UAA07525@netcom9.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <9403020528.AA26183@tsx-11.MIT.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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   From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
   Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 20:10:15 -0800 (PST)

   What has not been discussed here very much and what I felt going into
   the conversations with these people is that they *can't* tell us what
   they are afraid of.  It is not a matter of won't.  The conversations
   bore this out.   We have been concentrating on in our discussion here
   on how much they fear the loss of a power they have gotten used to and
   abused to where we find it offensive.  That is not nearly so much
   what they fear.  It is the *unknown*.  It is pretty hard to make public
   statements like that.

Yes, it is pretty hard, because it makes it seem as if they have small
minds.  

There have been people who have likened the coming of computers and
networking to the invention of the Gutenburg printing press --- that is,
it is a critical, enabling technology that will have extremely serious
impacts on our society as we know it.

I can imagine that back then, the Catholic church must have been deeply
opposed to letting the "hoi polloi" access to books, and access to
learning.  Think of how it would disrupt the social order!!!

From what you have said, it sounds like Denning, et. al's objections are
of a similar ilk; they are afraid of how this might completely change
society.  I agree; it probably will.  However, while there may have been
some societal upheavals that can be traced back to the introduction of
the printing press, in the end I think we can all agree that the
printing press was a good thing.

The important point that you make is that the cat really *is* out of the
bag; I am just concerned that the government, in a futile attempt to try
to stuff the cat back in, does perhaps fatal damage to all of our civil
rights in its desperation.  Look at how civil forfeiture has been used
to completely strip someone of his properties, without any due process.
Look at the RICO act, and the truely scary things that you can do with
it; it was originally applied against the Big Bad Mob, but it's turning
out to have much broader applications.

So if the cat really is out of the bag, then the government should give
up on this ill-conceived Clipper abortion as soon as possible.  The fact
that the Clipper propoents may actually be recognizing the hopelessness
of their task this is a sign of hopefulness or a sign of great danger;
the question is whether they will act like rational human beings, or a
cornered animal.

						- Ted