From: Grand Epopt Feotus <68954@brahms.udel.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 05:54:14 PST
To: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: The Coming Police State
In-Reply-To: <199403100941.BAA17639@mail.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9403100816.A1178-0100000@brahms.udel.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 10 Mar 1994, Timothy C. May wrote:

> Anyone contemplating a "Mom and Pop remailer" should also think about
> implementing the basic features of an "ideal mix," the remailer mix
> scheme described by David Chaum in his 1981 "Communications of the
> ACM" paper. It's been discussed here many times, particularly by Hal
> Finney and myself, and others, in exchanges about the properties
> remailers (mixes) should have. I recently wrote a long article on
> "Remailers: The Next Generation," which you may want to reread.
>
	I myself am very new to the net, and also to crypto, soI
	have not seen these papers before.  Is ther an archive
	where I could find them?  Or could you possibly mail me a
	copy of your "Remailers: The Next Generation" if it is
	not already archived someplace I could find it.  I do
	have a fw questions about remailers myself actually.
	Would I still be able to recieve mail at my account?
	Just how much attention does it bring?  Is it feasible
	for a student on a conservative system(read fascist) to
	get away with a low profile one?  I know low profile is
	not the goal, but I do want to help if possbile.


> Of course, truly good remailers open up the operators for interesting
> liability issues, lacking the ability to log users and isolate
> problem users or recipients. Just so you're ready for this.
>
	this is a concern of mine actually.  I am really more
	worried about what would happen to fellow cypherpunks
	interested in this if the prototypes were quickly
	attacked by the law, than wether I would get in trouble
	or not.  I myself am rooted in the U.S. as far as the
	forseeable future goes, so I definetly need to consider
	these things.  What would be the legal implications of me
	operating a site with a physical location outside the
	U.S. from a site in the U.S.  By telnetting to it or
	something?  Would that system be subject to the laws of
	my nation, or would the be subject to the nation of there
	physical location.  hehe, actually this may be a good
	idea, just to add to legal confusion for the lawyers to
	shovel thru if they want to get to me or the system.
	This way we could have a foreign IP addres, a US operator
	and perhaps users from various nations, rendering us a
	nice thick soup of legalities.



> The obvious question: why would Joe User want storage space on someone
> else's system when he could encrypt on his own system? Unless you plan
> to locate the storage space outside the U.S. legal jurisdiction, which
> is where things get interesting of course. (I know some folks who've
> been talking about doing this for years now.)
>
	Yeah it would be hairy at the least.  Well one reason to
	allow storage space is for those who do not have a system
	at home, students using labs, those who only acces is on
	a company machine, which could easily be watched, or if
	encryptian becomes illegal, or heavily restricted, it
	would take pressure off of some people to let someone
	else hold the evidence so to speak.  I never thought of
	putting it outside US jurisdiction myself, but it's a
	good idea, hmmm.  


> 
> Yes, this is the whole idea, the whole motivation for the existing web
> or Cyperpunks remailers. Strenght in numbers, really _big_ numbers.
>
	This reminds me of something, what is the policy
	towardsreposting letters here to various boards on BBSs
	where there may be interested people?  Like would you
	mind if I posted your rant there?  I have posted a few
	things from cypherpunks already, like anon-remailerinfo
	and how to use and set-up one, in the Undergroud Forum on
	ISCA, which is a very big system.  I would think it is
	welcomed but thought I should check it out.  I think that
	the more people you touch the more people you'll
	eventually have involved more deeply.



> Data havens, a la Sterling, or even a la BlackNet, are indeed one such
> market. Probably not the first, though.
>

	gee, can you tell I just finished Islands In The Net 8)
	hehe. Amazing the power of a meme huh?


	You're eqipped with a hundred billion nueron brain, that's
	wired and fired, and it's a reality generating device, but
	you've got too do it.  Free youself  ----Tim Leary----