From: GERSTEIN@SCSUD.CTSTATEU.EDU
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 94 12:02:03 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Warrantless searches- sorry to bring this back....
Message-ID: <940424150140.20229e27@SCSUD.CTSTATEU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry this reply has taken so long..... My comments are below.
--------------
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 16:48:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Llywelyn <samman@CS.YALE.EDU>
Subject: RE: Warrantless searches -- A sign of things to come?
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Cc: mrami@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com

Adam writes:

> Anyway, the point is, these people aren't safe in their own homes. The 
parents 
> keep their children home from school because they are afraid that they will 
either 
> get shot (which happens quite a lot, one child was shot by a "gangsta" with a 
> sniper rifle while his mother was walking him to school- the kid was about 5 
years 
> old) or that the kids will get involved in the gangs.
> 
> For a while, the Chicago PD were unwilling to enter the buildings until after 
the 
> shooting had stopped, and would then go in to tag and bag the bodies. IT WAS 
BAD!!!

Ok, now let me get this straight.  The police who are supposed to 'serve
and protect' weren't willing to go in there to protect their
constituents because it was too dangerous, but in the same breath they
want to remove these people's ability to protect themselves.

Just wanted to make sure.

Ben.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
	The cops aren't unwilling to go in there, it's just not safe. Period.
	Think about it. The cops have a .38 or a 9mm if they are lucky. Some of 
them may even have bullet-proof vests to wear. Some of the smarter cops have 
been able to find two bp vests to wear on patrol.
	So, they're cruising along, when a call goes out. One of the CHA 
buildings has a sniper on the roof. If they go anywhere near that building, 
he'll take they're heads right off.
	Or maybe the call is to make a bust on some drug-dealer. The dealers 
usually have someone listening to the police frequencies on a scanner, so that 
when the cops show up, they'll have a big surprise waiting. In the form of 
assualt shotguns, semi- and fully-automatic machine guns (the Mac-10 and Uzi 
are quite popular with druggies and gang's these days).
	And what kind of bullets are the bad guys using? Not what the cops get 
to use. Oh-no! The baddies have the "Cop-Killer" bullets: armor piercing, 
Teflon coated bullets that two bp vests WILL NOT stop.
	Alternatively, the baddies could just pump the cop car full of lead. 
After all, a cop won't do much if he's busy bleeding to death from his knees, 
or if some "gangsta" shot his foot off.

	Think about it. The cops are out-gunned and out-manned. What would you 
do? And don't tell me that you would just go in there. I consider myself pretty 
brave, but I don't think even for a second that I would be able to even 
consider going in there, not without a nice, warm, cozy M1 Abrams Tank 
surrounding me. And even then I wouldn't be truly safe.
	These cops are doing the best that they can, and everyone in the U.S. 
are worrying more about the "rights" of these gang-bangers and drug-dealers 
than they are about the rights of the innocent people that are trapped in these 
buildings.
	And don't even start to tell me that the "innocents" can just leave, 
cos these CHA buildings are the only place they can afford to live.
	You folks are to busy yelling about the illegal searches to even think 
of coming up with an alternative.
	
	Maybe if you spent a little time thinking about what it's like to live 
in a place like this, you might shut up about the cops not doing their jobs.

Adam Gerstein

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