From: "Jim Sewell" <jims@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 05:51:52 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks Goals: Bad debate drives out good debate
In-Reply-To: <199405120237.TAA17015@netcom.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <9405121251.AA08297@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


<In mail Timothy C. May said:>
> 
> Some fine work is being done, both by those who are posting here and
> by those who are apparently holding their counsel for the time being.
> But the crumb bum posts are definitely winning out.
> 
> To be sure, posts by the stronger posters--who I won't name now--can
> still generate significant debate, but not nearly as well as the
> inflammatory posts can. (Part of this is predictable: the stronger
> posts are often technically deeper, meaning that more of the reading
> population feels unable to add signicantly.)

Tim, 
  You are right about the excess fluff on the list, of course.  I also
  think a very good explanation is what you and another poster have
  mentioned about the "masses" being or feeling unable to contribute
  to such a technical matter.  Everyone can respond to a jerk though.

  There are three points I'd like to make:

  1. The technical posters should strive to talk to the masses and not
	 each other.  It's the same old catch 22 of "The professor has a PhD
	 and knows his stuff, but he can't talk to students on their level."
	 Why not set up a tutorial posting where someone who intimately 
	 understands crypt tries to explain some of the basics to those of
	 us who are along for the ride instead of studying for the Grand
	 Master of the Universe Degree in Cryptography and Math.  Perhaps
	 your "golden oldie" idea is a step in the right direction.

	 Of course, this assumes the techies are mostly interested in helping
	 newbies become techies.  If their intention is to send info back and
	 forth among themselves please tell us so we can look elsewhere for
	 instructional help.

  2. Many people on the list are time-challenged :)  A short post from
	 J.Random Jerk is much easier to read than a 5 page eloquent speach
	 from you which, although it contains very good information, is 
	 difficult to "hang with".  Some of the more knowlegable people here
	 have a tendency to ramble and make their postings flowery and they
	 lose us normal folks that want to read "just the good stuff".

  3. We are human and it is human, or at least societally inborn, to
	 argue back when insulted.  We all have to continually remind ourselves
	 to ignore the jerks and not jump back.  If everyone ignores them they
	 will go away.  (as an aside:  Nalbandian isn't some punk kid!  He's
	 an older person in his mid 50's.  It's a shame to see someone who has
	 that many years of experience to act that way, but they do sometimes
	 and we just have to learn to ignore them all.  << Yes, Tim, I know
	 I am among the worst flamers here sometimes, but I'm trying >> )

  Please don't take this as an insult.  It is only meant as MY OPINION of
  what's "wrong" with the list and what could be improved.


  Take care
	 Jim
-- 
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