From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Date: Thu, 26 May 94 15:46:01 PDT
To: rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray)
Subject: Proposal to Use the Extropians List Software
In-Reply-To: <9405262135.AA05871@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <199405262245.PAA18850@netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ray Cromwell writes, quoting me:

> > By the way, so far as I am aware, *nobody* has ever been kicked off
> > the Cypherpunks list. Not even Detweiler, who asked to be removed last
> > Novemeber or so, as he was entering his terminal phase. 
> 
>    The disadvantage of this is that since your list software has no
> filtering capability, I must deal with a huge flood of messages
> everyday that Detweiler generates. For a simple list like
> majordomo, I think deleting trouble makers is a good short term solution.

Ah, yes, the Extropians filtering software. As Ray of course knows,
the Cypherpunks list offered to use this software, and discussions
were ongoing for a while. This started about a year or so ago, and
fizzled out last fall. (I now assume some fo the fizzling out had to
do with plans to ultimately commercialize the software, via the "Weir"
thing.)

Ray and Harry are of course free to choose their strategy as they see
fit. Here's one suggestion:

Suggestion: Offer a subscription-based list remailer which gateways
the Cypherpunks list through the "Weir" software. This could be
handled by Ray & Harry, Inc., or via some customer who bought their
list software to provide such a service.

This is consistent with what Eric has said is OK: subcontractors can
distribue the list with all messages encrypted (as Hal Finney does),
or with naughty words censored, or with only messages containing the
word "Detweiler" blocked (or passed, for the masochists). Solves the
"moderation" problem some people keep saying needs a centralized
solution.

It also gives the Ray & Harry Corporation a chance to debug the
software on another list, a list very interested (as Extropians are)
in reputation filters and related ideas.

> > I like the Cypherpunks system a lot better. Instead of bogging down in
> > claims, charges, formal bets, adjudication, appeals, etc., there are
> > relatively few if any rules. Somehow the turkeys end up leaving.
> 
>   With much heat and light generated in the meantime which is fine for
> some people, but irritating to others. Keeping in mind Coase's Theorem
> and Spontaneous Order, Harry and I are going beyond the idea of
> PPLs by attempting to create list software which allows 'personal
> justice', filtering, reputations, etc. We personally believe that
> the whitewater of noise which is out there now will become a tsunami
> when Joe Sixpack gets his 'entitled' account. The only way to defend
> yourself from this assault in cyberspace will be intelligent communications
> software.

So then let's see it.

I will pay around $20-30 a year for such filtering capabilities as I had
when I was on the Extropians list. (I'm not sure much more is needed
with the present volume of mail. This may change in the future,
possibly as a result of this kind of software making mailing lists
more tolerable, but for now I'll settle for the simple ::exclude
capabilities.)

I suspect 50 of us might pay the same amount. 

--Tim May


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