From: The Computer Doctor <0005192995@mcimail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 May 94 09:48:35 PDT
To: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Double betting and money laundering
Message-ID: <80940506164608/0005192995NA1EM@mcimail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Peter Wayner wrote:
 
>Apparently, casinos are now on the lookout for people who 
>are teaming up to play both halves of a bet. One casino 
>kicked out two guys who apparently were betting on pass
>and don't pass on the craps table. Why were they bothering?
>Was it laundering? Nope. It turns out that casinos hand
>out free "comps" based on the amount of betting that you
>do. This is called being "rated." They notice that you're
>betting $10 chips and figure that the math shows that you'll
>probably lose x dollars per hour. Then they give you free
>room and food to show their appreciation. 
 
Forgive me, but I am skeptical. I worked for a short while as a licensed
craps dealer in NJ about 10 years ago. There is no combination of bets
on a craps table that will cancell out the house advantage. When I delt,
the house welcomed any combination of bets any player wanted to make, let
alone worrying about what some confederate on the same table might do.
 
There are strategies for lowering the house advantage. John Scarne 
describes various betting strategies in his book, "Scarne on Dice," (I think
that is the title, it's been a while). One method he described was to make
pass line bets, take the full odds, and make "come" bets, and take the
full odds on them. Casinos pay true odds on these bets, that is they pay
even money on your pass line bet (or come bet), but the true odds on the
extra odds bet. So if the shooters point was 4, he would be paid even money
on his pass line bet and 2 to 1 on his odds bet. The true odds of rolling a
4 before a 7 is 2 to 1. Thus this is one of the rare bets in the house
that is paid the true odds. Note, however, that you had to risk your pass
line bet on the come out roll (where 2,3 or 12 loses, but 7 or 11 wins) for 
at least one roll in order to get the chance to take the odds. You only get
to take the odds after a point is established. 
 
Scarne mentions, If I remember correctly, that the odds are slightly better
(but still in the houses' favor, so I should say"slightly less worse") if
you play the don't pass, don't come, and LAY full odds. Wrong betters have
to lay the odds. So on the come-out roll, before a point is established,
a 2,3 or 12 wins even money on a don't pass bet, a 7 or 11 loses. Once a 
point is established, say a 4, you must lay 2 to 1 odds for the extra bet. 
So although the don't pass with full odds method may be slightly less costly
over time, you must risk more money per roll.
 
I've seen many players try to hedge their pass line position with a bet on
"any 7". Those are the "prop" bets in the center of the table (in front of
the dealer with stick). But the odds on these bets are shaved worse than
the pass-line bet with full odds. They are one roll bets, and the pay off
on rolling a 12 (for example) is 30 to 1. Which sounds great until you
realize that the true odds are 35 to 1. The house wants you to make that
bet all night. That's why the stick man hawks those bets much like a
carnival barker. Any extra bet you make to hedge your pass line bet (or
don't pass) is just more money at risk with the percentages in the houses'
favor. If they were worried about some confederate canceling your loss
by betting on don't pass (which pays when a 7 comes before the point),
why would they allow the shooter to play "any 7"? The comps are based
on money in play, not on your betting strategy (in craps, anyway), as far
as I know. So I would be surprised if the casino was worried about people
teaming up to get "free" comps by placing contrary bets.
 
What we WERE warned against is someone trying to past post you on the 
"don't pass". Once the point is established, a bet on 7 coming before, say
a 4 or 10, is a good bet. Many break-in dealers get past posted on the
don't pass. A con man will position himself right next to the dealer,
just above that portion of the layout where the "don't pass" box is
located, and as the dealer responds to a come out roll of 4 or 10 by 
leaning out to service the layout, the con places checks in the don't 
pass box and then asks to lay full odds. 
                                
                        Regards,
                        Pat Fallon
with probably way more information about craps than anyone cared to know.
 
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