From: "Gary Jeffers" <CCGARY@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 94 16:44:22 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CEB 6 the Unpleasantness
Message-ID: <9406042344.AA04287@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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   Cypherpunks' Electronic Book (CEB) 6 the Unpleasantness.



>Gary Jeffers apparently blames me for his dropping of the "Cypherpunks
>Electronic Book" project:

>>        Cypherpunks' Electronic Book (CEB) part 5 - the hangover.

As badly as it was received, you should be proud to take the blame!
But no, I don't blame you.

>
>>    Tim May writes on & on & on about my failure to write the CEB.
>> Hey, just where did I pick up GUILT? I had a really great idea for

>I did not write "on and on" about this--go back and read what I wrote.

>> Cypherpunks that I also felt was a glaring omission of Cypherpunks'.
>> I wrote up the idea as best as I could & tried to interest some com-
>> petent C'punk to do it. I thought I did a really good job of writing
>> up the idea. Unfortunately, I lack the skills to write the particular
>> code to do the idea. Its sort of like bringing home a rabbit for suppr
>> & everybody dumps on you cause it wasn't a moose. What kind of guilt o
>> you dump on people who actually do bad things?

>Flaky ranters like you and Hettinga are but the latest in a string of

"Flaky ranters like you"? Now, you have lost your pretense of criticism
of an idea & have gotten to your real agenda - attack on my person -
you sorry fuck. (my turn) :-)

>ranters who wring their hands and cry "*Do* something@! I tried to be
>polite in my comments, even saying "So, if the CEB enthusiasts want to

& now after your heroic self control has been taxed to the max, You are
007 - Licensed to be nasty! a small max really, made for offense
taking.

>try this, I applaud them."

>In most of these cases, including Detweiler's similar wailings that no
>one would create "alt.whistleblowers" for him, such politeness is
>apparently unappreciated. Ranting is ever so much more fun, I guess.

>(Hettinga's rants about "Garth and Wayne," broken windows, fleas on
>his head, and "I'm not worthy" are just too strange for me to follow.
>I sense a proto-Detweiler is forming in the great void.)

   I have not followed your dysfunctional relationships with your
buddies Detweiler & Hettinga, but do feel free to keep them to your-
self. Are you trying disingenuously to identify me with these people?
They say that if you squint your eyes just right & long enough, dogs
look look much like Adolph Hitler. So, Tim, why don't you go out & find
one, squat, & squint till you notice the resemblance? :-) That's a
joke Tim.
   But in a more serious vein Tim (preferable a major one), I thought
your bad experience with the Extropians would have kept you from assaulting
-ing people with claims of being elements in a class based on flimsy
comparisons. You remember when your candy ass got chased off the
Extropians' list with allegations of your being a fascist. But, of
course, that would have scared anyone: a bunch of savage Extropians
writing Fascist! Fascist! Fascist! :-)

>>    Admittedly, implementing the idea is magnitudes more work that get
>> ting the idea. However, it was a great idea & why should I suppress i
>> because I personally couldn't implement it? No doubt, great ideas fal
>> from Tim May like rain from the skies & he considers them cheap if no
>> nuisances. However, in most of the world, they are in short supply & re
>> considered valuable.

>Nonsense. Like Detweiler's "electrocracy," this idea was just an old
>notion in new clothes. In this case, the "stone soup" FAQ idea all
>over again.

>I said it before, so I'll be brief: worrying about the details of
>distribution instead of the writing is the big mistake. Distribution
>is relatively trivial, whether by ftp at the soda site, distribution
>by mail, whatever.

>>    I have discovered that the idea of bunches of creative, skilled
>> programmers with lots of time on their hands is a myth. I guess they
>> all manage to figure out something worth while to write. Originally,
>> had thought that there would be at least one of them around looking
>> for something worthy to do.

   Note: There is no covert meaning to the above paragraph. I really was
naive in thinking that they might not have their time fully occupied
with projects.

>If _you_ think it is worth, and _others_ think it is worthy, then
>absolutely nothing is stopping you all from doing this project! Do you
>think the comments of _me_ are enough to stop you? Jeesh.

>What you seem to have done is to see my comments about such "stone
>soup" let's-volunteer-the-others appraches and then just _given up_ in
>a huff. Methinks you just have no staying power and were hoping the
>Cyperpunks Masses would make your CEB project the centerpiece of their
>efforts with little further work on your part. It just doesn't happen
>that way.

>>    I believe that I have described a very worthwhile project for anyoe
>> who wants to do it. I have a lot of hope that someone will do it late.
>> I don't think its going to be forgotten. I would like to thank the
>> people who supported the idea. CEB doesn't look like it is going to
>> happen soon but if Cypherpunks grows, I think it is inevitable that i
>> will happen.

>It won't happen because nobody out there is going to do it, not
>because your feelings got hurt.

Mocking other peoples' hurt feelings can get you into places where your
own delicate feelings get hurt.

>>    But, Tim, if you decide you want this done - do it yourself. You
>> just have no idea how you get dumped on when you suggest others do
>> it for you! :-)

>More nonsense. Nonsense I am finished responding to.

Tim, for a guy who doesn't care about other peoples' hurt feelings, you
have got real thin skin.

>--Tim May

   Its surprising to me that my CEB plan got such bad reviews. I got my
idea flamed by a lot of C'punks but life is tough. You present an idea
& its not necessarily going to get accepted. You take a chance. But
that is fair. I carry no grudge against the other C'punks. Tim May,
however, is different. He criticized ME! & he was so unpleasant!
Now we find out how Tim likes the intentionally unpleasant.
   I don't know Tim May very well but I've noticed he gets into a lot of
flame wars. Could this be his M O?: Get into an argument with a victim
over a matter of fact, then slyly turn it into an attack on the person
without losing the applause of the gallery? Also, I don't like his
shrill strident manner.
   I don't like a bully. When I run into one, I like to make sure he
takes a few lumps too!
                                            Yours Truly,
                                            Gary Jeffers
                                     PUSH EM BACK! PUSH EM BACK!
                                     WWWAAAYYY  BBBAAACCCKK!
                                     BBBEEEAAATTTT  STATE !