From: rittle@comm.mot.com (Loren James Rittle)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 13:13:55 PDT
To: s009amf@discover.wright.edu
Subject: Re: Clipper vs. PGP
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9407091030.A11417-0100000@discover>
Message-ID: <9407112013.AA13678@supra.comm.mot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Date: Sat, 09 Jul 1994 10:30:25 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Aron Freed <s009amf@discover.wright.edu>

>Does anyone have any opinions on what would happen if the Clipper Chip 
>and its associates were all implemented and the general public swallowed 
>on it?? Would we as knowledgeable computer people become outlaws??? Would 
>be it like 1984?? Would our computer illiterate neighbors try and catch 
>us??? 

If computer knowledgeable people all became outlaws just because of
their knowledge, we would be living in a rather awful place and time,
now wouldn't we... :-)

>And going the complete opposite direction (a full 180). If the public was 
>able to obtain PGP as easily as we are and they would use it for 
>everything, would that lead to the overthrowing of the government and 
>therefore cause anarchy, due to the fact the governmnet would be helpless 
>in knowing what everyone is doing contrary to the CIA, FBI, etc. being 
>able to read everything we write and say through their current illegal 
>wiretaps???

The government would not be overthrown, unless unjust laws were "in
force".  I believe that there are many unjust laws and arbitrary regulations
on the books, but I believe widespread encryption being used by everyone
would result in many of them being taken off the books as unenforcable
"moral judgement"-type laws, as opposed to armed revolution occurring.
Of course, this does imply that the citizens of the US still have their
guns to back up a threat to the government...

Even with encryption being used by everyone, the important laws (anything
that effects two or more people in an adverse manner) would be totally
enforcable.  I.e. things like the OJ case would still be solvable (DNA
and fingerprint analysis would still be able to solve crime, the inside man
and post-crime eyewitness accounts will still have great impact in court).
Given the coming digital information age, people will most likely be able to
keep much better personal records: record everything the say and do
with video and audio recorders.  Any crime that effects them would
be solvable with the help of this information.

Geez, given the number of wiretaps current used to solve crimes (very
small in my opinion: under 10000/year for the whole country), I don't
see what the big deal is.

A reference to history (yes, one can lie with history, but since I bought
guns into the equation, I'd like a chance to show why they are important
in the hand of "the common folks"):
Hitler rose to power in Germany after the *previous* government in Germany
collected all the guns from private individuals.  With no guns in the
"common man's" house, no one could stop the madman's facist rule and his
war making.

I believe the following with all my heart:
Guns in the hands of the people is the only thing that keeps government
(ours or any other one in the world) in check.

[BTW, I don't own a gun and was brought up by parents that would never
 own one. :-]

I fear a government out of control far more than I fear a few criminals
out of control.

>I'm just looking to get a complete picture. At this moment I would go 
>with PGP, but I still see a lot of problems with being on either side. 
>They seem so extreme...

There is nothing wrong with using PGP or Ripem or TIS/PEM or Mailsafe
[RSA's own product] or ...  Assuming that you are being labeled
as an extreme element just because you use some totally legal software
doesn't make any sense to me at least.

--
Loren J. Rittle (rittle@comm.mot.com)          Ripem-1.2 MD5OfPublicKey:
Systems Technology Research (IL02/2240)        D2CE4A0F2BABF33AEF10C8C669DD782D
Motorola, Inc.                                 PGP-2.6 Key fingerprint:
(708) 576-7794                                 6810D8AB3029874DD7065BC52067EAFD