From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 19:28:48 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (Fwd) electronic signatures for CAD
Message-ID: <199411220327.WAA09479@pipe1.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarding <alt.architecture> message by tommy@Fateepee.CAM.ORG
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From: tommy@Fateepee.CAM.ORG (Tommy Petrogiannis)
Subject: Re: electronic signatures
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 17:08:06 -0500
Organization: SILANIS TECHNOLOGY

>On 5 Nov 1994 18:44:14 GMT, 
>Aaron Rumple, AIA  <rcet035.slvaxa.umsl.edu> wrote:

>Electronic signatures will not make for a paperless 
environment.  They will 
>add to the lawyers generation of paper when you have to defend 
yourself 
>because your file became the basis of another project in which 
you were 
>not involved.  Once you send a electronic/magnetic form of a 
document you 
>lose all control over who has access and what they do to your 
files.  You 
>can protect yourself in your contract with your client and by 
making 
>hardcopy (more paper) the drawing of record.  However, anybody 
can and will 
>sue if your title block, signature, etc. is found when 
something goes 
>wrong.  It has happened.

>In short, an electonic signature is nice to protect what you 
sent 
>electronically, but I would not want it to replace my seal on 
a paper copy 
>that could be kept as a record.  Forensics can detect changes 
on paper but 
>not on electronic files that have been transmitted around.

I have to voice the comments that our customers are saying 
about our electronic  approval software for AutoCAD. Many of 
our customers are still archiving a paper  copy of the 
electronically signed original, however because ERA allows them 
to sign  in the same environment as where the drawing was 
created (i.e. the electronic environment)  it becomes a very 
simple matter to know if the drawing that you are looking at on 
your  computer screen is the latest electronic approved 
original. 

Most companies today create their drawing on a CAD system, plot 
those drawings for visual  verification and sign those drawings 
in the paper world. The minute those drawings are signed in the 
paper world they become "originals" that must now be archived 
and stored in  some form of filing cabinet. If we did not need 
to refer to those archived drawings life would  be fine, but 
unfortunately we do. Today you pull up a drawing on your 
computer and hope that  everyone followed proper procedures and 
you are looking at the latest copy of the paper signed 
"original" - you can never be sure because the drawing was 
approved in a different domain  than where it was created, and 
the only thing linking the two domains (paper and electronic) 
is  procedures. 

Our ERA system was first designed to be used by a large nuclear 
generating facility and is  now available to the public. What 
we did was mimick the paper world as much as possible when  it 
came to approving a drawing. With ERA you now approve and sign 
a document from right inside  AutoCAD using a ball point pen 
and a pressure sensitive digitizer. The key thing here is to 
allow the approval of the drawing to take place in the same 
domain as where the drawing was  created (i.e. the electronic 
domain) but still offer all the security expected in the paper
world (if not more), and still maintain the ability to generate 
a signed drawing that can be  used in the field or be archived.

This is achieved by doing the following:
	The persons' signatures are not AutoCAD entities and therefore 
cannot be cut and pasted.
	The signatures are DES encrypted along with time stamp info 
and information that
		uniquely describes the current state of the drawing being 
approved.
	The signatures will not be printed on a drawing that has been 
altered after the drawing
		was signed.

All of the above plus a whole lot more are meant to facilitate 
the creation of paper, but  eliminate the need to go find that 
paper afterwards - sort of producing a photocopy. The  original 
is in the electronic domain, while the paper becomes a 
redundant copy. The benefits  are HUGE. A drawing can now be 
sent electronically from desk to desk to be approved. A drawing 
 can be retrieved electronically and by simply clicking on 
VERIFY our customers can check to  see if they are looking at 
the drawing that was approved or if someone has accidentally or 
maliciously altered an original rev.

We have had such great response to ERA product for AutoCAD that 
we just announced at COMDEX  our ERA product for MS Word so 
that any wordprocessor type document can be approved in the 
same fashion.

I apologize for rambling on, but I believe that we have really 
solved the last issue required  to achieve the ability of 
creating, revising, and approving in an electronic domain. One 
customer went from a 7 week typical approval cycle down to 8 
days using this technology - how  much is that worth don't 
really know, but it makes a lot of sense. People don't realize 
that  they are performing electronic approvals every day. When 
you walk up to an ATM machine and  withdraw $100, by entering 
your PIN you are authorizing the withdrawl to take place. The 
question every company must ask, is how secure do I feel with 
the technology. Can someone take  my bank card and figure out 
my PIN to forge my electronic authorization? Yes but it is 
difficult - not impossible. Can someone forge my handwritten 
signature? Yes but it is difficult - not impossible. What I 
tell our customers is to use the electronic approval for  the 
projects where they feel comfortable - for many of them it is 
the internal based procedures and projects that requires 80% of 
the time and money and still use traditional methods for 
high-risk projects. It seems to work for them quite well.

-- 

Tommy Petrogiannis
tommy@Fateepee.CAM.ORG
       _   __o
  ______  `\<,    Going slow just hurts too much.
      --  O/ O    Going fast gets me there sooner - so I can...
                   recover from the pain quicker

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