From: xpat@vm1.spcs.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 12:51:38 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fundies: The last word on this subject (please)
Message-ID: <9411172051.AA13593@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*This is the last reponse to a former crypto thread gone bad*
*Please post your flames to me, not the list. Thank you.*

Once upon a time, I said:
>>The political history
>>of Christian states or heavily influnced Christian states is a bloody one,
>>and a definite lack of privacy for anyone "outside" the religious majority.
>>(See the histories of the British Empire, Spain, Nazi Germany, and the
>>United States (lets not forget "Manifest Destiny")).

On Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:52:14 -0600 (CST) you said:
>Nazi Germany was run by occult-influenced pagans.

Duh. What about the other millions of participants. Did you have relatives
living and participating in Nazi Germany? I did. They were some of the most
sadistic invasive individuals you could ever imagine. They were Lutherans.
Can you say, "Papieren, bitte?".

>To include it as a
>Christian or Christian-influenced state demonstrates substantial ignorance,
>prejudice, falsification, or some combination thereof.

Let's see that's  C -> ((I & P & F) v (I v P v F)), a conditional disjunctive.
Not very convincing really, not to mention downright mean spirited. Perhaps
your argument would be more compelling if it had anything to do with
crypto/privacy issues. See you later and thanks for the bait.

>What Manifest Destiny has to do with privacy is obscure to say the least.

Let me guess, you're not a pre-1600 Native American. You should read some
real interesting accounts of just how tolerant the largely Christian settlers
were of the native population of North America. Statement after statement and
plea after plea were made to stay out of their lives and to give them the
privacy to live as they wished. Try reading "The Long Bitter Trail: Andrew
Jackson and the Indians" by Anthony F.C. Wallace or "The World Turned Upside
Down: Indian Voices from Early America by Colin G. Calloway.

You might be saying to yourself, "Hey, I remember that differently from
history back in school". That's true. It's interesting to find out what
a farce the written history interpretations in this country are on some
matters. Historians had their agendas and interpretations too. Try reading
"Historians Against History" and "The Free and the Unfree: A New History
of the United States" by David S. Noble. These works point out the
importance of primary material in recording history, and may cause oneself
to be more cautious about positing historical "facts".

Now let's get back to talking about how we are going to insure our liberty
through encryption and all that it implies.

regards,

-pd-