From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 10:11:53 PST
To: Hal <hfinney@shell.portal.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous payment scheme
In-Reply-To: <199501022121.NAA07411@jobe.shell.portal.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950103101009.18076C-100000@crl.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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                          SANDY SANDFORT
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C'punks,

On Mon, 2 Jan 1995, Hal wrote:

> . . .
> There are a couple of issues here.  One is whether you could get a
> debit card with another name printed on it than your own.  Sandy
> Sandfort and some others have suggested here that this would be legal
> and possible already as long as you don't do it with the intention to
> commit fraud.  You can open a secured account by mail and give a false
> name.
> 

Opening an account in the US without ID is very difficult
> I'm not sure what you do in this situation if they ask to see some ID
> when you try to use the card.  This would be rather embarrassing, it
> seems to me.  Sorry, I guess I left my drivers license in my other
> pants... Or, never mind, try this card.  That other one was from before I
> changed my name...
> 
> The other issue is whether you could set up a payment system which did
> not require social security numbers from the participants.  I think
> this is much more questionable.  Although the phone cards and some
> other restricted usage systems are apparently legal, bank accounts seem
> to have many more restrictions.  Barter and scrip systems are also
> heavily regulated.  All these laws involving reporting requirements,
> etc., were passed to help the government track the flow of money.
> There is no way the government is going to make an exception at this
> point.  In fact, I suspect that if the limited systems expanded to
> where they were used for general payments, the government would crack
> down.  I recall reading that just such a crackdown occured in Las Vegas
> when casino chips started to be accepted for non-gambling payments.
> 
> So, you may be able to have a form of anonymity from the person you are
> transacting with, but I don't think you can be anonymous from the bank
> and from the government.  And personally, I am more concerned about the
> bank and gov't tracking my spending patterns than whether the guy I buy
> gas from knowing my name.  The bank has a lot more information about me
> which is much more threatening to my privacy.  A nom de guerre VISA or
> debit card does not seem to help this problem.
> 
> Hal
> 
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