From: an215712@anon.penet.fi
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 15:26:09 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: LD tentacle?
Message-ID: <9507132146.AA04231@anon.penet.fi>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


has anyone heard of John Bass? based on this recent message, in which he
melodramatically tries to stir the shit on a RMIUG list (rocky mountain 
internet user group) I wonder if L.D. is in fact a John Bass tentacle, or
vice versa...


From: jbass@dmsd.com (John L. Bass)
To: rmiug-discuss@xor.com
Subject: The legacy of Ted Smith's, Gary Anderson's, and Mary Newell's
    actions.


        The legacy of Ted Smith's, Gary Anderson's, Mary Newell's, and
possibly Scott Crawford's (since it was difficult to figure out which side
he was on) un-ethical postings combined with inaction of the elected and
natural leaders of RMIUG will reflect poorly on the group and it's leaders
for years to come.  This legacy includes the inaction of the entire readership
of rmiug-discuss as well (with the exception of Gabe who is a guest reader
from the east coast).

        Leadership has a number of grave responsibilities and difficult
choices - the foremost of which is the preservation of ethical and moral
behavior in the group - to protect the reputation of the BOTH group and it's
elected and natural leadership. In some instances, none of the available
options may be popular - but in-action is by far a greater failing.

        I deeply regret the events which have unfolded over the last
two weeks.  Making 10 of 31 posts in a group of 11 posters regarding
the MS topic of 6/29 should not be a capital offense. Nor should
questioning a board members assertions about the use of the list
in the face of historical usage. Nor should questioning the tollarance
of highly unethical private and public attacks upon posters. On the
29th I heeded Aleks request after reading it, and made a single additional
post. As Gabe noted, we were already winding the debate down. Unfortunately,
the several 1-2 hour delivery time of rmiug-discuss delayed Alek's comments.
I'm am deeply disappointed that the lessons learned from the last two weeks
have come at a great cost to all.  I am more concerned the examples set here
by Ted Smith, Gary Anderson, and  Mary Newell may greatly limit discussion
and participation in RMIUG.

        Each of you *IS* RMIUG. As a group your ethical, intellectual,
and moral guidance and leadership can not be ignored in difficult or
unpopular times.  Many have choosen in the last 3 days to vote with
their feet out of disgust. While they can distance themselves from the
unpleasant events this way, it is just another form of failing to take
more positive steps - maybe out of fear of being targeted themselves.

        I have many questions about why rmiug at nearly 700 people was
unable to maintain a higher level of content (and traffic) as a tool to
augment the learning curve of the many new comers to the internet, expand
the horizons of all, and form the dialog to bind the readership into
a effective functioning group. A highly sucessful topic in a large
diverse group this size will only have the interest of 10-30% of the
readership, just as the meetings do not benefit and attract the entire
group each month. A topic that produces content from 7 posters over
26 messages should not create a fire. A good highly successful topic
which really involves the readership, might draw comment from 1% of
the readership, some 60-70 people, and include maybe a hundred or
two posts. And several at the same time, even more.  Expecting the
ACCEPTABLE volume of the list to remain under 3-4 per day is a great
burden on the usefulness of this list.

        One difficultly has been that some readers use ISP's and BBS's
with extremely small quota's and read their mailbox's infrequently.
They have been extremely frustrated at their mbox/quota overflowing
from traffic around 50-100KB/wk. For others it has been the relatively
poor user interface of some mail readers which limits their ability
to select the articles they wish to read.  It is hard sometimes to
understand the small quota's in the face of disk space costing less
than $.30-.50/MB.  Maybe one project of this group should be to help
find/provide entry level members better access and tools at a nominal
or free cost.

        Dispite Ted Smith's slander and assertions to the contrary,
I bring some objectiveness and experience to issues many would prefer
to ignore.  I loathe the current PC vogue to avoid conflict at all costs
- - often with thick sarcasm and an unwillingness to listen to conflicting
view points.  I am direct, up front, listen well, accept  "constructive
criticism", and enjoy reasoned civil debate. I have the highest respect
for someone who can present/defend their views with a reasoned arguement
based upon fact and experience, and in the face of equally reasoned
arguements also based upon fact and experience, augment/change their
position or possibly agree to disagree when no common ground exists.

        I've been active some dozen times as the leading exec member of both
professional and civic orgs. I last ran a SF Bay area unix users group
known as UNIOPS/Silicon Valley Net(SVNet) for over 3 years almost single
handledly - including printing and addressing as much as 2000-4000 meeting
announcements for bulk mail each month.  With current and early breaking
topics and speakers I was often capacity limited by the 800 seat room ...
often standing room only.  When I moved it took me a year, and going dark
twice, before I could find a team willing to take over the burden and
continue what I had started.  Before that I ran two different groups with
semi-annual international Unix conferences with between 300 and 1000
attendees as "West Coast Unix Users Group" at SRI International
(formerly Standford Research Institute) and as UNIOPS (before helping
found /USR/GROUP now known as UNIFORM). I also spent two years on the
/usr/group UNIX standards committe as the "Extentions Sub-committe Chairman".
 Both concurrent and prior to that I did my duty as board member of several
Square Dance Clubs and Campus orgs. My public life has been second to my
family for the last 7 years.

        I suspect in part, the hostility here results from a previous
unpopular dispute where I called for the resignation of Guy Cook after
having CSN drop all the mail for dmsd.com on the floor for many weeks,
and then publicly deny that CSN had done so (as well as a number of
other management failings at CSN). Guy and CSN have come a long way
in the year and a half since, to become probably the best ISP in the
state. The road was rocky, but all have learned from the experience,
and I hope moved forward, including I.

John L. Bass

FYI: rmiug-discuss volume by day from 5/18 to present.


30 |-------+---------+---------+---------+----#----+------
   |       |         |         |         |         |     
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25 |       |         |         |         |         |     
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20 |-------+---------+---------+---------+---------+#-----
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15 |       |         |         |         |         |     
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   |       |         |         |         |         |     
   |       |         |         |         |         | #   
   |       |         |         |         |         |     
10 |-------+---------+---------+---------+---------+------
   |       #         |         |         |         |  #  
   |       |         |         |         |         |     
   |       |         |         |         |     #   |   # 
   |       |         |         #     #   |         |     
 5 |       |         |         |         |         #     
   |      #|# #      |         |#        |         |     
   | #   # |      ## |  #      |         |         |     #
   |       |   #     |#  ##    |      #  |   #    #|     
   |# ##   |         | #       |   #   # | #    #  |    #
 0 +----#--+-#--##--##-----####+-##-#---###-#----#-+------
    112222222222330000000001111111111222222222230000000001
    890123456789011234567890123456789012345678901234567890
    May           June                          July

    0000 0000 00  00     00    00  0 000   0 0300 00210000 Group `#'
    1211 3494 42  33  21322    64  1 621   1 2071 25029713 Volume


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