From: Andrew.Spring@ping.be (Andrew Spring)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 10:04:21 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Why they can be sued... (Was: freedom of speech)
Message-ID: <v01510103ac2888fb20cd@[193.74.217.8]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>Last thursday there was a report in the news. They started a new
>lawsuit against a Nazi, who was already earlier sentenced for other
>Nazi crimes. He was sued because he distributed a video. In the video

Just to sidetrack the issue, a bit.  Are there any ex-Nazis who participated
in the Holocaust who would dispute this guy?

>
>I wanted to know in detail why he can be sued. Therefore I had a look
>into my book commenting the criminal law. I try to translate as good
>as I can.
>
>In the german criminal law there is a chapter about slander, libel and
>such things.
>
>Slander is seen in Germany not as a crime, but as an offence.  It
>differs from other offences in the detail, that the prosecuting attorney
>can't sue it himself. It needs the request of a 'victim'.
>
>If the victim dies, the right to request is transferred to the
>wife/husband and the children. If there aren't any, to the parents. If
>there aren't any, to the brothes/sisters and grandchildren.
>
>  Par. 189: Wer das Andenken eines Verstorbenen verunglimpft,
>  wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit
>  Geldstrafe bestraft.
>
>  Who decries the memory to a dead person, is punished with jail up
>  to two years or fine.
>

This is a little different from the US. I've never heard of anybody being
jailed or fined for libel/slander, just sued for it.

>
>This applies under certain circumstances to saying that the holocaust
>never happened.
>
>Do you have a law like this in America?
>
>

No. You can't libel the dead.  Most historians would get their socks sued
off if you could.  I remember reading about a case once in which two sons
wanted to sue the man who had libelled their dead father.  They couldnt do
it through normal channels, father being dead and all, so they publicly
called the libeller a liar, repeatedly, eventually provoking _him_ to sue
_them_ thereby allowing the truth of the original liber to be tested in
court.  The sons won; a moral victory at least.

>
>This is the reason why someone can be sued if he claims that the
>holocaust never happened. It is not the idea itself. The reason is
>that it can be a form of violence against dead people in the eyes of
>german law.
>

So in other words, the Holocaust-Denial crime is a creative extension of
existing libel laws.

>BTW: I have a collection of the most important german laws on my
>webserver. You can find the list at
>
>http://iaks-www.ira.uka.de/ta/Diverses/Gesetze/
>

Useful to know that.  Aachen is just down the road from here.



--
Thank you VERY much!  You'll be getting a Handsome Simulfax Copy of your
OWN words in the mail soon (and My Reply).
<Andrew.Spring@ping.be> PGP Print: 0529 C9AF 613E 9E49  378E 54CD E232 DF96
   Thank you for question, exit left to Funway.