From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 09:43:35 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunks Purity Test
Message-ID: <ac785d1601021004ddb4@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It seems that none of us are "pure enough" for Anonymous.

In the real world, and in the world of crypto experts, programmers, and
legal folks, people have real jobs. Sometimes with Microsoft, sometimes
with AT&T, sometimes with the Justice Department.

To exclude them from our discussions because they are not pure enough and
have not done as Anonymous has (who may actually be working for anyone, of
course), is self-defeating. By working for Microsfoft, Justice, or TPC,
they can probably do more for "the cause" (in its many dimensions and
facets) than some warez-junkie living with his parents can.

Specifically,

At 2:45 AM 9/10/95, Anonymous wrote:

>wei dai patents algorithms - for microsoft!!!!. that should
>fucking help us a lot. whos he gonna sue first?

Wei Dai's work is impressive...I'm not surprised Microsoft hired him for
the summer. Patents are a way of life. They may not always be, and
different people have different views on them, but meaningless insults like
this are a waste of our time.

>according to sci.crypt mat blaze can prove that clipper has no back
>door. right. that sure helps us. david sternlights new hero.

If Anonymous believes this claim by Sternlight, he didn't read the rest of
the discussion and he knows as much about crypto as Sternlight does. Matt
Blaze made a much more finely-nuanced point about this (I wasn't at the
Crypto meeting, but read his comments in sci.crypt, and they directly
dispute this point by Anonymous.)


>pat farrel signs up with the nsa to make the key escrow rules easier
>for us morons to understand. hey thanks. maybe theyll give you a
>nicer room in the concentration kamp.

Pat Farrell and several other members of our list attended the NIST key
escrow meeting. I would have also if I lived near D.C. Is silence the only
acceptable behavior at such meetings? Perhaps Anonymous feels that even
_attending_ such a meeting is disgraceful? Most of us disagree.

>
>a whole shitload of socalled cypherpunks jumping over each other to help and
>defend him.

They "defended" him in the sense that they questioned the motives (and
perhaps the emotional age) of Mr. Anonymous. We on this list have had a
long interest in key escrow, dating back to the first weeks of this list's
existence, and 6 months prior to the public disclosure of Clipper. Much
discussion of key escrow in various forms (Clipper, SKE, CKE, GAK) has
occurred, and even lists of changes/improvements have been made.


>brian davis trys to convinice us that key escrow isnt so bad (who signs
>your paycheck davie?????)
>

I recall Brian Davis asking a well-formed question about whether our
objections to key escrow would be lessened under various circumstances. A
perfectly reasonable thing to do. Several of us responded. What this list
is for.

>that guy from rand corp tells us words of wisdom from robert morris the nsa guy
>as if we should write them down and pray three times a day to them.
>

??? This one escapes me. Robert Morris Sr. has written many interesting
things. That he worked for, or still works for, the NSA is no reason to
ignore what he has said.

Anonymous would probably be thrown into an apoplexy were he to learn that
more than one current Cypherpunk actually worked for the NSA.

>carl elison designs key escrow for tis and acts like hes one of us.
>

He _is_ one of us. His work on commercial key escrow (CKE) is not
inherently bad. After all, there are many legitimate reasons people and
corporations would _choose_ (emphasis on "choose") to split keys, store
them with trusted agents, etc. CKE, if done right, may be the way many of
us protect ourselves, from loss of keys in various circumstances. Even
protect ourselves from having to give keys to others (imagine offshore CKE
depositories which have instructions on under what circumstances they will
comply....).

I ask Anonymou, is it better that an active researcher and developer of CKE
be on this list, or that we cast him out (as if we could) and continue in
ignorance?

>bruce schneier is copyrighting crypt programs and
>threatining to sue people who use it.
>

Like it or not, copyrights and patents are the way things are now being
done. It sometimes takes having a patent portfolio before one can "trade"
with those having other patents. Longterm, this will likely change (crypto
anarchy and all that), but for now....

I'm not going to defend software patents, but insults like this, for
someone who has worked so hard on crypto education, are uncalled for.


>even phil zimmerman is selling the rights to pgp. what about all the
>people who contributed code (like me). not a dime for us because phil is
>famous
>and your not alowed to say anythingn bad about him. sorry i forgot phil is god.
>no one dares to complain. ask phil about me and when i asked about sharing
>profits from the code i conrtibuted. also about the deal with
>r.f...

Now we know that Anonymous is actually a plant from the One Worlders!
Insulting Saint Phil is too much.


>lets get back to being punks. fuck these traitors. do crypto and fuck the nsa.
>

Articulate words. Or, as Anonymous woud put it:


"fuck this noyze. get back to hacking commodore 64 warez. crypto rulez, d00d!"


Amazing what the cloak of Anonymity brings out in people. Almost enough for
me to start to believe the doubters of anonymity, the skeptics. But, with
good filtering (and especially with positive reputation filtering), no big
deal to send Anonymous to the oblivion he so richly deserves.

I've written a lot in my time on this list, and no doubt Anonymous will
find many items he thinks prove I am working for the NSA, or Chobetsu, or
am an agent for the Beast. So be it.

--Tim May

---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
Corralitos, CA              | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839      | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."