From: liberty@gate.net (Jim Ray)
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 95 05:33:18 PDT
To: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: Wearing RSA shirt to school
Message-ID: <199509041203.IAA38469@tequesta.gate.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Tim wrote:

<snips throughout>

>At 4:43 AM 9/4/95, Futplex wrote:
>>I wrote:
>>> With respect to possession within the U.S., there aren't any
>>> laws stopping you from waving strong cryptography around wherever you like
>>> (at least, not yet).
>>
>>----
>>...and in private email, Jim Ray pointed out that showing the shirt to a
>>foreign national might technically violate ITAR...
>
>Nope, no more so than letting a foreign national read Schneier's book is a
>violation of the ITAR. If you dispute this, ask whether Schneier's book is
>banned from export (the book, not the optional diskette). It isn't. Nor are
>other cryptography _books_ banned from export.

The law doesn't have to be consistent, or to make sense, or be
enforced evenhandedly. The law is, after all, not written, or
interpreted, or enforced, by partisan Libertarians like me.
My private email to Futplex said *may* violate... and I stand
by it. [IANAL, though.] Whether or not a law as incontrovertably
stupid as ITAR is enforced may depend on the timing of the next
election, as we seem to be witnessing in the limbo-state of PRZ.

>I'm not minimizing the issue of export of machine-readable code, as in
>diskettes. But to claim that a blurry, printed on cotton "barcode" is even
>remotely in the same class as exporting a workable set of cryptographic
>system routines, or that letting a furriner merely "gaze upon" this blurry
>barcode, is a violation of the ITARs is laughable.

Yes, but *many* laws are laughable.

>>Yeah, I suppose I overstated it a bit. It appears that if the ITAR do cover
>>the shirt (unclear at present, AFAIK -- any news on the CJR, Raph ?), then
>>flashing it at a furriner could constitute a violation. Thanks for the
>>correction.

Actually, it was less a correction than me pointing out (yet another)
note of uncertainty. James Madison, in Federalist #62 said it best:

"What indeed are all the repealing, explaining, and amending laws, which
fill and disgrace our voluminous codes, but so many monuments of deficient
wisdom." 

Now, many of us would be more than satisfied to get back to that level of
government. I suggest that everyone go have a look at the entire Code of
Federal Regulations, before the next election. <g>

>the original questioner need not fret about his son wearing the
>>shirt to school.

I agree that wearing it through Customs on the way to Jamaica would
be more problematic, but I live next to a US Customs agent, and he
learned about ITAR from me. Here in Miami, Customs has plenty to
think about with the various (occasionally venomous) inbound cargo.

>It was this series of posts about whether wearing the "munitions t-shirt"
>near schools was a crime or not that made me think the silly season had
>arrived.

It has, a long time ago. Ever watch C-SPAN?
JMR


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh

iQCVAwUBMEro1W1lp8bpvW01AQHKsgP/bhOcCUoksLvbGe/nAKxDqZU8KvibvRFm
nQ++Xy3FjDDJrFg1/lgmivtrriuFK/xg4CvKdu+yQ6zJ72pH+92cLivsfHeg+ljZ
MPSXfHftaOP7i1e4KajnlC3jBcYbWQnqZRdduIyPXZnfn5xK5bU99c5oceCABtSx
UD/Hp9Poqbc=
=7tMD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Regards, Jim Ray

See, when the GOVERNMENT spends money, it creates jobs; whereas 
when the money is left in the hands of TAXPAYERS, God only knows 
what they do with it.  Bake it into pies, probably.  Anything to 
avoid creating jobs.  -- Dave Barry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP key Fingerprint  51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE  53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 
Key id. #  E9BD6D35  James M. Ray  <liberty@gate.net>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support Phil! email zldf@clark.net or see http://www.netresponse.com/zldf
________________________________________________________________________