From: Stephen Whitaker <whitaker@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:15:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: nym-compoop
Message-ID: <199511060335.WAA04917@maple.sover.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm glad "nobody" thinks I'm a nym for being a good eight hours:fifty-nine
minutes out of step and having lowered my reputation in his/her eyes. Now
I'll ask my question again, which apparantly got lost in the collective
groan of my stale post:

        Are there ways for someone with access to modify router tables 
        to constantly create alternate paths at other routers 
        which would serve to end-around any such snoops?

This question is now offered in the context of the _hypothetical_situation_
of there being snoops out here in the first place. Later I'll ask about
sniffing for sniffers.

One reason for this post is the fact that certain ambitious bureaucrats here
in Vermont have decided to build, own and control the internet, connecting
governments, schools and a few businesses. There is no encryption in use by
the government agencies and they have let the school hackers and teachers on
now to share the T-1 backbone with the state agencies and contractors
(medicaid/EDS) carrying personal information collected and managed by state
government. 

These [ir]responsible parties refuse to provide any documentation requested
under public records law demonstrating that a security plan or practice is
in place. The high schools are offered 56K circuits for $5K/annual and a
share of a gov'ment network manager who wont answer his e-mail and doesn't
know where to begin looking for copies of it, when it too is requested under
our public records laws. 

Our governor stated in his address to the legislature that these 56K lines
will let an "unlimited number of students access the internet
simultaneously". Anybody got a bridge?

I sure would like to hear from some folks who would be willing to aid in
paying close attention, discussing the implications and appropriateness of
encryption technologies for this situation, aiding in testing for sniffers,
etc. This request is offered as an attempt to keep a step ahead of the
public/private competition, privacy accident-waiting-to-happen and the
surveillance potential/practice of such a beast.

If someone who feels strongly that this is off-topic for this list makes
that case I'll carry my inquiry elsewhere, after a little cross-fire, of
course. I even went back and just now read the "Welcome to" message to see
whether these issues fall withih the scope.

I can hardly find anyone who even cares about the fact that our legislature
relies on the executive branch gov-net managers for their port/connection on
the internet router. They also rely on the executive branch for
troubleshooting their novell LAN. Does anyone else see a separation of
powers issue or privacy issue here? Note that I cc: the speaker, who cares
but doesn't yet grasp the implications. Feel free to write him directly. His
name is Michael Obuchowski, Obe for short, <speaker@leg.state.vt.us>, tell
him I sent you.

At this point offering encryption software to school age kids is a whole lot
easier than convincing bureaucrats that it's a good practice. This wont
solve the problem of poor practice by government though. Unfortunately this
will also likely frighten the school network techies, administrators and
school board members.

Anybody have a copy of any good, tight, discovery orders which can be useful
in gaining court ordered access to prevent destruction of evidence and for
combing the electronic files and e-mail of these accountable public servants
to demonstrate that they don't know what there doing? (responses to the
legal points by private e-mail please. Do I come across as litigious?)

The Boston Globe did a good front page story a week or ten days ago entitled
"e-mail as evidence". Mostly the story was relating to lawyers and
consultants making big money aiding corporations to assure that the really
damaging, unencrypted e-mail is thoroughly scrubbed from all systems.

Back to where this started:
Eating my tasty crow gives rise to another question relating to the timing
and continuity of these threads: How did the first responder on the RE:
134.222.9.1, Simon Spero, reply at 10:48 pm on Nov. 4 to Anonymous' posting
of 7:19AM on Nov 5? Which way is this thing spinnin?

Stephen Whitaker
P. O. Box 1331
Montpelier, Vermont
05601-1331
802.479.6118