From: anonymous-remailer@shell.portal.com
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 95 19:01:53 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CSE gets flak on TV
Message-ID: <199511180300.TAA16642@jobe.shell.portal.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alice here (the real one) ...

On Thu, 16 Nov 1995 anonymous-remailer@shell.portal.com wrote:

> Hmm, actually the news tape is reading a little strange here in Canada.
> Not AP, or REUTERS, but simply the Canadian Press newswire.

         [long exercise in character assassination deleted]

I think that this "writer" who felt that it was desirable to attach MY
name to this drivel deserves a good flogging. 

Clearly, someone is spending WAY to much time on //WIRES on the Dow Jones
News Retrieval Service, or wherever else they get to Canadian Press news
stories.  The matter Mr. mystery-writer detailed is in fact a Canadian
matter, a domestic affair, which has no concern to an international
audience. 

Taking three successive news stories from three days ... (press stories,
I've since pulled for my own reference) and pasting them together to
indicate some type of Machiaevellian?? (sp) exercise is simply "not done." 

> And all these stories ... coincidentally ... broke back to back.
> 
> It's almost as though the country is disinfecting itself, or has taken 
> one particularly powerful laxative.

I don't see this at all.  The CSE story has no connection to anything 
else which is occurring domestically nor internationally.  No relationship 
whatsoever.

> But the CSE story is really, really smelly.  The worst of the whole lot. 
> 
> I think that there might be more to this than appears on the surface. 
> Maybe filling in some details might help our friends on this list.
> 
> You listening, Perry???

I think Perry has far more interesting fish to fry, than to worry about 
domestic Canadian affairs, and what occurs within another sovereign's 
borders.  

Whether or not Canada has collected and analyzed communications traffic on
the activities of foreign states, corporations, and people is simply a
Canadian matter.  

It's OUR affair.

> "And if, in fact, there has been illegal activity going on, we'll want to 
> deal with that in as public a way as possible," said Sheila Copps.
> 
> The Mexican government has presented a diplomatic note to Canada
> expressing "surprise and concern" over the report that it was spied on
> during the North American free-trade talks. 
> 
> South Korea is looking into the matter as well. 

Airing dirty laundry like this serves no purpose, whatsoever.  It's not
productive and is not focused to any particular policy objective. 

And in n any event, the Canadian Communications Security Establishment
does serve up "sloppy seconds" (as some other poster named them) under
intelligence sharing agreements with its counterparts in the United
States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.  

In the same vein, it also is a recipient of same.  These agreements and
working relationships have historically benefitted all. 

> And I guess ... that's all of the news that I've got to this hour.  Except
> for one brief note, that Prime Minister Chretien tried to call the States,
> but the Government shutdown meant that his call couldn't get through.  
> I think he tried to call NASA.

Fella ... whoever you are ... please get your stories straight.

The Prime Minister of Canada was trying to call NASA, not the NSA.  There IS 
a significant difference between the two, as near anyone on this list can 
attest.

The Prime Minister was attempting to contact Canadian astronaut Chris
Hadfield, who is on the space shuttle Atlantis which is presently docked
with the Russian space station Mir.  

He wasn't trying to call the NSA ...  it was the NASA. 

In fact, the Prime Minister's comments from the Commonwealth meeting in
New Zealand were most clear.  "This is an organization that works within
the law of Canada.  They do not report to me on a daily basis and I cannot
make any comments on if they are spying on anybody, I don't know.  But
they have a mandate to check a few things around the world." 

Please try reading the list for a bit, before posting and confusing
people. 

> Speaking personally, I just think that something is a bit fishy. I mean 
> "Jane Shorten" is a nym if I ever heard one ... probably married to
> "Dick Lengthen" or something.  

Your juvenile antics deserve no further comment.

> I mean ... HELLO .... GiGGle TesT ... what on earth did she think the CSE 
> did??  Made snowmen and skated on the Rideau Canal??

I don't think that this is relevant.

And btw, it's giggle test ... it's not "GiGGle TesT".  I learned how to 
use a shift key long, long ago.  You oughta try it some time.

> The agency IS obligated to destroy information about Canadians it scoops 
> up in its electronic net.  A rare exception might be a phone call 
> describing a terrorist plot, but that would truly be exceptional, I think.
> 
> I mean its not like one big fishing expedition. 

The CSE does not target its own citizens and has agreements with other 
agencies that they will not either.  If someone's communication is 
accidentally caught in the net, the CSE is obligated to destroy the 
information except in the rarest of circumstances. (i.e. foreign terrorists)

> And that's the fleshed out version of the story.

Your fleshed out story was very interesting ... especially the way you 
tied things together.  Did they teach you to do that type of thing 
somewhere??

But it's not appropriate for this list.  And this is a Canadian matter.

> I'm just sorry that our Prime Minister is in such a bad position because 
> of the timing of this "Jane Shorten's" revelations.  She also revealed 
> that Canada spied on Japan.
> 
> To think ... Canadian Prime Minister Chretien is a guest of the Japanese
> people today.  Talk about some awkward moments.  I mean, what on earth do
> you talk about?? 
> 
> George Bush and Sushi??

Cute ... really.  I'm certainly amused.  As I'm certain were all the 
Americans on this International list.  George Bush, simply had jet lag, 
when he threw up at Japan.  What does he have to do with anything?

Canada and Japan have a great deal to speak about.  Canada might even be a
good friend and help the US with the Okinawa problem.  Who knows?  We
never know how these things play. 

I really don't think that Canada will be marginalized by this, and I 
certainly hope that neither will I.  Your antics, notwithstanding, and 
your imagination of "tying things together" serves no purpose.

The people on this list can filter fact from fiction.

> Alice de 'nonymous ...
> 
>                                   ...just another one of those...
>                                                    ...hunters...
> 
> P.S.  This post is in the public domain.
>                   C.  S.  U.  M.  O.  C.  L.  U.  N.  E.

Like, I said ... very, very cute.

There's only one problem, mr mystery-writer, I only have one or two
interests on this list.  And politics is not generally one of them.  My
interests are simply and in order of personal importance, 

     - removing known Security Holes in existing software or removing the
       software, (e.g.  Netscape Navigator and Java), and

     - finding some secure way to implement functional international
       commerce via the Internet. Probably, something ECU based. 

Security and E-cash. 

Your attempt to create some type of political "brownie points" or desire
to gain some attention or notoriety simply destracts me from addressing
the real issues, and addressing my backed-up email. 

MALICE DE MONSTEROUS wasn't enough for you??  

Please don't bother with any reply.  None is expected.



Alice de 'nonymous ...

                                  ...just another one of those...
                                                   ...hunters...

P.S.  This post is in the public domain.
                  C.  S.  U.  M.  O.  C.  L.  U.  N.  E.