From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 04:10:30 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" <lharrison@mhv.net>
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: cypherpunks-news@toad.com? (was: rand-test)
In-Reply-To: <9511231639.AA25523@mhv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.951123191604.11385D-100000@usr6.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:

> <snip>
> >I am inclined to agree with Perry in as much as the volume of posts to
> >the cypherpunks list is greatly increased by reposts of news from
> >other mailing lists, USENET newsgroups, WWW sources, newspapers, TV
> >programs, films, books, talks, etc.  While some of the information
> >posted is interesting, and relevant, some others are less relevant,
> >bordering on noise.
> >
> >The proposal: a separate list for current-event reports/news/reposts.
>
	<attila> someone suggested a new list --moderated. My concern, so
circulated, is that whoever (including backups to cover vacations and 
travel) accepts the responsibility must not thrash any of the code posts. 
My suggestion for making the list effective is to always post to c|punks, 
even if you are on the code list which means "cypherpunks" is still the 
same; who ever is doing the moderating then forwards all the code threads 
to "cypherpunks.moderated"  --you get the best of both worlds.
 
> 1.  Creating a separate list, IMHO, will not stop cross-posts to the list.
> People will merely add one more list to their "cc" line.
>
    	<attila> no doubt. for instance, whoever put c|punks on the 
    ACLUNATL@aol.com biweekly list would just hit both and that one cannot
    be unsubscribed except by the original subscriber. however, that one is
    concise -let's hope we do not get hit with "digitaliberty," "VTW" or any
    of the rest of the prolific slammers/day. 

    	the issue as pointed out above is a separate moderated and 
    non-postable list.
 
> 2.  More importantly, I am troubled with the "this is OUR list" attitude
> that some people have expressed.  Yes, it is a pain when their are
> cross-posts that are completely off-topic but, as Adam correctly points out,
> some are interesting and relevant.
>
	<attila>  but is not the charter of the list "cypherpunks write 
    code" an issue. I don't go as far as Perry on irrelevancy (and Perry 
    breaks his own commandment at will --as do I).

>     One of the tenets proposed by those on this list is free speech.  Most
> of us are on more than one list, so I'm assuming that most of us receive
> 100+ messages a day.  It is irritating to read something that's been crossed
> to c|punks that has nothing to do with this list.  However, it only takes a
> few seconds to arrive at that conclusion and trash the post.

	<attila> that may be true, but it is annoying enough that I use
    'procmail' to waste the lists (and Dr. Fred) before they even make the
    message list.  AND, 'procmail' separates all the mailing list into
    separate folders on the way in --I have not read a newsgroup for
   almost a year unless I am looking for something very specific. 

>     The "they are targeting this list" borders almost on paranoia.  While
> some paranoia is healthy :) - it should not lead to the cry to ban posts
> that have been *deemed* to be inappropriate.
>
	<attila>  any one with a political agenda is going to cross post 
    any list which, in their opinion, might be an audience. the ACLU
    post today is obvious --freedom of speech and congressional action to
    effectively shut down the internet, which certainly falls within our 
    mainstream "interests."

>     I find it interesting that those who express that the net should be a
> community where expression is to be encouraged and defended - until the time
> arrives when such "unsolicited/unwanted/offensive/irrelevant" expression
> knocks on one's front door.
> 
	<attila> this is a valid concern. the last figure I saw for lists 
    was 12,000+.  if some of them do not overlap, where did they find
    12,000 topics worthy of a mail list? as I said, procmail takes care of
    the yeoman's portion, but it is not the be all to end all either. I'm
    not at the point of writing an ai based preprocessor which analyzes
    the content of the folders before invoking my mail reader, but how far
    off is that? information may be key to survival, but...

> Regards -
>   Lynne
> 
	<attila> comment to Lynne: that is the key to life as we know it!

> 
> *******************************************************
> Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.   |     "The key to life:
> Poughkeepsie, New York    |      - Get up;
> E-mail:                   |      - Survive;
> lharrison@mhv.net         |      - Go to bed."
> *******************************************************
>