From: jimbell@pacifier.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 01:41:00 +0800
To: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: real life problems with ITAR (was Spam the Sign!)
Message-ID: <m0tJ1o2-0008zJC@pacifier.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Attila@primenet.com said:

>   On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, jim bell wrote: 
> 
>> I very much agree with the direction you appear to be headed in.  It seems
>> to me that Netscape should have no problem devising some sort of scenario in
>> which such a program eventually gets onto the nets, but in a way that is
>> squeaky clean, at least for THEM.  
>> 
>> 
>> In addition, why should they even need to write the encrytion part of their
>> software IN the US?  It occurs to me that one way to do this might be to
>> send one of their programmers to a conveniently-located place, such as
>> Vancouver BC , Montreal Canada, or a few other nearby places, with a great
>> deal of fanfare, and tell him to "write some crypto."  He does, and brings
>> it back into the US with him, leaving a copy of it "outside" the country for
>> international distribution.
>> 
>    <attila sez>  I think they have that one covered --not only is it 
>violation of ITAR's intent to send a programmer out of the U.S.

Well, don't assume that because something's a "violation of ITAR's INTENT"
it is actually a violation of ITAR.    It can't be assumed that ITAR is
_perfect_:  That it actually prohibits every activity the government that
wrote it didn't like.

, but is 
>illegal to hire a foreign national to program for your non-U.S. products.

Sure about this?!?

>    the test is going to be with someone like Sun who "bought" a group of 
>Russian crypto programmers and left them in Russia.  Now, the problem 
>with ITAR is that if you import that code, you can not then export the 
>code since it is now covered by ITAR.

I didn't say that the code would ever be "re-exported":  A copy would be
brought into the US for domestic use, and everyone else outside the border
would get their own copy from an outside server. 


>    secondly, it appears there is a move afoot to make it an ITAR 
>violation to hire the foreign nationals to circumvent ITAR --basically, 
>the Feds want to stop cryptography _everywhere_, including telling 
>Russians they can not work for U.S. companies!  Just where do they think 
>they are getting off?

It is for this kind of problem that I "invented" my concept of
"Assassination Politics":  If everybody pissed off at this situation was
willing to donate $10 to a fund to reward the deaths of a few government
officials responsible for ITAR, I can well imagine that this would shake
them up a bit.