From: anonymous-remailer@shell.portal.com
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 02:45:47 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [NOISE] Re: FW: websurfer 4.6
Message-ID: <199512081045.CAA09807@jobe.shell.portal.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Ed Carp wrote:

> > On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Rich Graves wrote:

> > 
> > Its interesting to note that all the people that were raving mad about
> > Java seem to be quiet now that MS is proposing to use VB. At least Java
> > was designed from the ground up with security in mind. But VB?

Java was not designed from the ground up with security in mind. Not by
a long shot.  It was an incubator project.  I know that.  And the Java
team knows that as well.  

And the ones who WERE raving about Java -- myself and others -- might
simply be attempting to speak to Sun through some non-public channels.
I, as an example, have tried to speak with my local Sun software
manager, Warren Strange, about Java and voice some of my concerns,
that way.

(Yep, that's his name ... "STRANGE" ... what else would you expect
with a company who's Canadian subsidiary is run by an "Everett", and
who has a Vice-President named "Tribble".)

Mind you ... I got absolutely _nowhere_ with Mr. Strange.  

I think he said that James Gosling was WAY too busy (as was he), and
that the last time he had checked Gosling had 800 email messages in
his mailbox, and that I should probably post my questions to
comp.lang.java, if I expected any answers.  

I really didn't have the heart to tell him, that I generally avoid
comp altogether, and stick primarily to the alt hierarchy --
especially alt.fan.alt.bigfoot.  Strange as that might seem.

Then again, I tried to have a bit of quiet time with Everett after
Monday's Christmas party, but he never had any time for me.  Too busy,
I guess.  He was running off to shoot snooker with some of the boys
from Oracle, I think.

I think that takes precedence over customer concerns.

But the party was a smash.  They even had a guy doing magic tricks.
Shame I didn't bring any business cards with me to a social occassion.

Guess, I just wasn't trained right.

But I _did_ get a nifty Java T-shirt and a snazzy pin.  So it was
worth it.  And the smoked salmon was an unexpected surprise in "It had
better be Beef" Alberta.  It was a very nice touch.

I also tried to talk to a Sales Representative (grin) about this --
about Java security.  Poor man.  I think he was almost tearful, when
he snapped at me, "Why don't you attack Microsoft instead??"

So, I guess I might just do that, here.

Does anyone besides me, see a sucker-punch in Microsoft's announced
support for Java??  Support for a competitor's product??  I certainly
do, especially from the way I saw the press presentations fly out over
the airwaves.  

The media coverage seemed not to convey the "right" touch of
sincerity.

It seems like Gates wants to support and promote a product as being
appropriate for something that it isn't suited for, and isn't designed
for, while having his very own own fall-back position with VB.

A sucker-punch.  Or at least that was my perception of it.  I don't
know about anyone else, here.

I wonder whether anyone from Sun smells a rat in Microsoft going this
route.  It seemed grossly out of character, for Microsoft.  Major
paradigm shifts such as this are truly unusual for large firms.
Especially Microsoft's IETF comments.

The frosting was just a little too sugary and thick, I think.

> And all this from a software company that took over 10 years to make 
> their "operating system" do preemptive *anything*.

It worries me when a company promotes another company's product
heavily, while only embracing it partially.  

Then again, what would I know.  I can get suckered into writing about
Microsoft's puffery by a single tearful Sun salesman.

Well, that, and some smoked salmon ... guess that rules me out for a
security clearance, huh??



Alice de 'nonymous ...               <an455120@anon.penet.fi>


                                  ...just another one of those...


P.S.  This post is in the public domain.
                  C.  S.  U.  M.  O.  C.  L.  U.  N.  E.









> 
> But I guess I shouldn't complain.  After all, VB has made me a pretty 
> decent living for the past year or so...
> 

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