From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 14:56:28 +0800
To: Brian Davis <bdavis@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: Fred Cohen: Re: CFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.951224042445.20498A-100000@mercury.thepoint.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.951225020645.6606A-100000@usr4.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Brian:

    	There is no way Cohen can send the police to confiscate toad.com, or
    any other computer without some form of criminal complaint --other 
    than by himself as citizen whistle-blower.

	I read the situation as Cohen was planning to attempt to make the
    actions a _criminal_ conspiracy. _If_ Cohen was successful in
    convincing either a state or Federal DA to seek a grand jury
    indictment, then the local police or the federal marshalls could be
    issued a search warrant to collect evidence. 

	I can see Cohen trying to present his case before the Federal 
    bench! In fact, I might be willing to pay admission.  Cohen lives in
    Hudson OH which is also the location of jis private <all.net>. Hudson
    is in Summit County and Akron (the county seat) has a branch court of
    the 4th Federal District (or used to).

	In West Virginia hill towns they teach the 3Rs: reading, 'riting,
    and the route to Akron, which is referred to as the capital of West
    Virignia. I can see the tremendous empathy of these people for Cohen's
    cause. <g>

	As I mention above, getting a DA's attention on questionable
    slander, is a bit far-fetched!  Tactically, I would think Cohen would
    find it necessary to actually win a civil suit which clearly indicated
    there was not only slander, but there was a malicious conspiracy to
    discredit Cohen. 

	Until Cohen actually manages to score a civil victory, I believe
    he is dead in the water. 

	Cohen should probably include me in his action --my idea of 
    discrediting Dr. Fred was putting him in procmailrc. Dr. Frederick B. 
    Cohen became Fred Cohen so part of this thread (missing anything from
    all.net) bled through.  No more, so I will not even see any of the 
    falderol if Fred*Cohen is anywhere in the text.

On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, Brian Davis wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, attila wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 24 Dec 1995, Brian Davis wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 23 Dec 1995, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> > > > > Fred Cohen writes to me in private:
> > > ...
> > > > 
> > > > Let's see.  I guess I would start by having the police confiscate the
> > > > toad.com computers becfause thay are part of a criminal conspiracy to
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > I didn't realize that AI research was that far along.  Can someone point 
> > > me to the specs for the computer that can become a "part of a criminal 
> > > conspiracy"??
> > > 
> > > EBD
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > daamage my reputation.  Criminal because of the recent changes in the
> > > > law that prohibit you from sending me information I don't want to get.
> > > > 
> > >
> > 	the basis of the seizure is for evidence collection.  then they
> >     take their sweet time scrounging the disks for evidence.  If no
> >     evidence is found, they give it back --eventually.  I saw one case go 
> >     by a couple years back where they were trying to make the computer an
> >     accessory to the crime (I dunno, maybe it was supposed to auto-dial
> >     and drop the dime --no that's in 18USC as failure to snitch!)
> 
> Much truth here, but not relevant to Dr. Fred's threat of a civil suit.  
> He can't have his attorneys just call the FBI to pick up toad's computer.
> 
> CoS's seizure of computers, while shameful, was based on a different 
> legal theory than the good Dr. can possibly allege. 
> 
> 
> EBD
> 
> 
> > 	of course, if there are drugs involved, they confiscate it as
> >     spoils of the criminal act and the equipment is impounded and
> >     eventually sold after conviction for the benefit of their slush funds. 
> > 
> > 	I would imagin you have seen plenty of the latter one in the
> >     Federal attorney's office. this also gets into the issues of private
> >     cryptography and that _everybody_ should give up privacy protection,
> >     first amendment rights, etc. so uncle can catch a few dopers, gun 
> >     runners, and other assorted malcreants [sic] --like the difference 
> >     between {mis,mal}feasance: in both cases you get fucked, but 'mal' is
> >     intentional... 
> > 
> >  
> > > Not a lawyer on the Net, although I play one in real life.
> > >
> >     hey, at least you admit you're having a good time!
> > 
> > > **********************************************************
> > > Flame away! I get treated worse in person every day!!
> > > 
> >     
> > 
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > #!/bin/perl -s-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
> > $m=unpack(H.$w,$m."\0"x$w),$_=`echo "16do$w 2+4Oi0$d*-^1[d2%Sa
> > 2/d0<X+d*La1=z\U$n%0]SX$k"[$m*]\EszlXx++p|dc`,s/^.|\W//g,print
> > pack('H*',$_)while read(STDIN,$m,($w=2*$d-1+length$n&~1)/2)
> > 
> > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> > Version: 2.6.2
> > 
> > mQCNAy5vBesAAAEEAN8cl6vHXrKZ9lFfZDgfyJRr3HidW77Uio7F25QF6QXca5z/
> > AS3ZrWsa0CjF2nwrqmyb1E5no7dFB+70ZfK8233r7ykVkWRojT+0K71lnUZO4cjG
> > +d19/ehXkDpkH3iHU7Uyo4ZdXLiI6uoFDS7ilzx8PCKcgvfq7b04kQrCC2kFAAUX
> > tAZhdHRpbGGJAJUDBRAur/X7xUpiaI661j0BAbVUA/9RSKN5sOFVB4rjV6+a2aWD
> > LjD5g/+eZaB/hI98qlPP+SBwzO3+K7+JWt3Fez0gKVju228ACGkvilg2VkMtQ0zm
> > YCexYL0U9StzHt4xEpowpmaWx22jpEvWnI10LZvT/NO3uYg5r/ezVYc7autKvfvI
> > rVOo322RkA0HNVV1rqjMGw==
> > =UNt4
> > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> > 
> > 
> 
> Not a lawyer on the Net, although I play one in real life.
> **********************************************************
> Flame away! I get treated worse in person every day!!
> 

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/bin/perl -s-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
$m=unpack(H.$w,$m."\0"x$w),$_=`echo "16do$w 2+4Oi0$d*-^1[d2%Sa
2/d0<X+d*La1=z\U$n%0]SX$k"[$m*]\EszlXx++p|dc`,s/^.|\W//g,print
pack('H*',$_)while read(STDIN,$m,($w=2*$d-1+length$n&~1)/2)

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQCNAy5vBesAAAEEAN8cl6vHXrKZ9lFfZDgfyJRr3HidW77Uio7F25QF6QXca5z/
AS3ZrWsa0CjF2nwrqmyb1E5no7dFB+70ZfK8233r7ykVkWRojT+0K71lnUZO4cjG
+d19/ehXkDpkH3iHU7Uyo4ZdXLiI6uoFDS7ilzx8PCKcgvfq7b04kQrCC2kFAAUX
tAZhdHRpbGGJAJUDBRAur/X7xUpiaI661j0BAbVUA/9RSKN5sOFVB4rjV6+a2aWD
LjD5g/+eZaB/hI98qlPP+SBwzO3+K7+JWt3Fez0gKVju228ACGkvilg2VkMtQ0zm
YCexYL0U9StzHt4xEpowpmaWx22jpEvWnI10LZvT/NO3uYg5r/ezVYc7autKvfvI
rVOo322RkA0HNVV1rqjMGw==
=UNt4
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----