From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 23:07:42 PST
To: Jonathan Zamick <JonathanZ@consensus.com>
Subject: Re: COMMUNITY CONNEXION REFUSES TO CENSOR INTERNET SERVICES
In-Reply-To: <v02120d01ad1f4b3400c7@[157.22.240.13]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960115061944.27043A-100000@usr1.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Jonathan Zamick wrote:

> 
> Ok, I know better than to get into:
> a) Totally off topic discussions on lists
>
	absolutely, I should have restrained my comment to sameer to:
    "thank you for standing up for all our rights."

> and even worse
> b) Political, off topic discussions.
>
	political --yes, unfortunately.  Off topic --well it is our 
    liberties and our freedoms --and after CI$ using the German prosecuter
    as an excuse to preempt Exon... 

	Yes, I agree, let's muff it; I did not completely or correctly
    express myself. I advocate the total conservative-libertarian belief
    in the absoluteness of the first amendment. 

	Unfortunately, it is seems to be necessary to place a limit as to
    what constitutes constitution freedoms v. the public good.  However, I
    abhor an ever expanding bureaucracy which can only degenerate into an
    ever more powerful thought police. 

	This is the same concept we, as cryptologists, dedicated to
    freedom of expression, privacy, and a means to avoid the fear of
    government intervention, are willing to confront that very authority. 

 
> However, I really do feel its my obligation to offer a counterpoint to
> Attila here. (Not a sanction of his own discussion, but a little debate.)
> I do this because I had a long talk with someone who liked to use weighted
> terms to speak against jews and jewish organizations, and am still a wee
> bit sensitive.
> 
	no, I agree with your premise. I did not intend to imply the 
    "jews are at fault" or any such hate drivel --only that the SWC was
    out of bounds and succumbing to the call for restrictions of the
    rights they themselves have so long championed. 

	my real objection to the SWC is the expectation of guilt; the 
    sins of the father shall be visited upon the sons and their sons, etc.
    you can not live and grow in history. there is _no_ present, only the
    future. and the future is NOW!

> What the SWC asked was idiotic. However, they are in no way guilty of the
> same 'mind-control tactics as the core Nazi party.' 

	we can probably disagree forever --it is a semantical issue.  
    unfortunately, both were built on general fear and hysteria.  However,
    it is essential to fully understand the SWC has NEVER advocated any 
    "final solution" or any other such rot against humanity.

> 
> The reason I'm so sensitive about these things is that the person I had a
> debate with over this area before could see nothing done by Jews in a positive
> light. 
>
	well, I guess the person you were confronting was insecure with
    himself and perhaps even envious of the enormous contributions the
    Jews have been in the advancement of knowledge over history --the
    musicians, writers, statesmen, and so on. 

	I take issue with their general politics, more so because it 
    breeds a backlash which endangers all of us --including them, but that
    is not an issue to cast a negative pall. 

	without trying to start another political war between the
    anarcho-libertarians, progressive libertarians, Jeffersonian
    democrats, Hamiliton-Madison-Jay Federalists, centrists, republicans,
    conservative democrats, liberal democrats, socialists, and marxists
    (did I miss too many shades other than the oligarchists, plutocrats, 
    feudal, and totalitarian states), let's all take a little natural 
    Melotrin <sp? --never tried it myself> and head for pleasant dreams!

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....