From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 04:51:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Noise and the Nature of Mailing Lists
Message-ID: <ad343a693d0210040635@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 3:55 AM 1/31/96, Laszlo Vecsey wrote:

>FYI the traffic on the PGPdomo list has been very low lately. I haven't
>received a message from the list in a few days. But then again there is
>even more 'noise' on that list because every message I've seen posted on
>it talks about PGPdomo, the mailing list, getting PGP software to work,
>etc.. From what I've seen people just sign up to test it out with a test
>message, and thats about it. Even with mkpgp for pine its still a bit
>inconvenient to use, I think thats the reason for the low-traffic.

I've been on a fair number of mailing lists, and they basically divide up
into two broad categories:

* Category I -- Busy, contentious, lively, high volume, prone to noise
bursts, vibrant, interesting lists. Above critical mass. Like a crowded
bar, with lively debate and always something happening.

* Category II -- Quiet, polite, quiet, low volume, moribun, quiet, dead
lists. Below critical mass. Like an empty bar, with only a few drunks
staring into their beers.

* Category III -- Working mailing lists, for folks working on a specific
project or Internet standard. These can be low-volume with good signal,
because they are not primarily social discussion groups but are, instead,
simple communication-of-information groups.

The Cypherpunks list is an obvious Category I list, and has been since it
was started in October of 1992. It has noisy periods, times of flaming, but
also a "critical mass" of new thought which obviously keeps it going, and
even growing. If we are doing everything wrong, it's hard to tell from a
"who cypherpunks" query sent to majordomo@toad.com.

Other lists I have been on have been much quieter, averaging a few messages
a day (or even less). On these lists, there is just no life. The occasional
pleas for help are like cries from someone stranded on the Greenland
icesheets.

And I have seen formerly vibrant lists die off, becoming Category II
groups, or worse. One list I used to be an extremely active contributor to
was the "Extropians" list, which perhaps a dozen or so of you reading this
message are now still on. The history of it is a long and involved one,
which I won't get into, for various good reasons. But around late 1993
there were many of the same concerns about "noise" as people are now
expressing. For most of 1993 the daily posting volume on the Extropians
list exceeded the volume here on Cypherpunks. So various things were tried
(they had the advantage of not being an anarchy, and the disadvantage of
not being an anarchy). Ratings systems for posters and their posts, even
attempts to impose "quotas" on the number of posts a person could write.
All well-intentioned, but all failures and cures that were worse than the
problem.

By early 1994, both Perry Metzger and I had left the Extropians list, for
our own reasons. No doubt the list got quieter. No doubt the volume went
down.

However, and current subscribers will no doubt jump in and give their
views, I hear that the current volume of messages is less than one per day,
with--according to my sources--sometimes days between messages. (I also
hear that the Extropians are devoting more of their energy to their
magazine, which may also be a factor.)

Note that several well-intentioned efforts to create sub-lists of the
Cypherpunks list have mostly failed. The DC-Net list, the lib-tech list,
etc. I suspect that the "Remailer Operators" list is viable because it's a
Category III working group list.

Digest like CP-Lite I don't characterize as a separate kind of list.

As to the new encrypted list, I wish them well. I doubt that list will do
real well, though, because of the critical mass problem.

And remember, it's a whole lot easier using filters and reading tools to
reduce the volume of messages on an active group than it is to get an
inactive group up to critical mass!

--Tim



Boycott espionage-enabled software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1  | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."