From: cman@communities.com (Douglas Barnes)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:16:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: why no FV defenders
Message-ID: <v02130507ad34099a0e42@[199.2.22.120]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[in response to Ted Anderson <ota+@transarc.com>, who wondered
 why cypherpunks are so unanimous in denouncing FV, when we are
 usually at each other's throats.]

Most of the pile-on can be attributed to the fact that FV does
_not_ really see encryption as part of the solution. Other than bits
of lip service here and there in technical groups, they actively
denounce it when they don't think anyone who knows better is
watching (I've seen it with my own eyes at banking conferences,
etc.)

Their extremely supercilious attitude doesn't help either.

The fact that their commerce model is skewed towards long-settlement,
non-anonymous transactions of extremely soft goods makes them
unsympathetic -- although, say, the Digicash people are just as
condescending and certainly _more_ difficult to deal with on a
business level, they have a product that is more applicable to
transactions cypherpunks are generally concerned with, so they
get pile-ons that are maybe half this size, and usually have some
defenders.

Also, clearly, Digicash and other vendors are involved in producing
cryptographic products, whereas FV is actively involved in spreading
FUD about the abilities of crypto products in general... this
is sort of like advocating cat torture on rec.pets.cats and expressing
amazement at the negative response.

This is not to say that there isn't a problem with the current
state of operating systems, especially PC operating systems, or
to say that crypto is magic dust you can sprinkle & make things
secure but I think there's a general belief here that the ultimate
solution to these problems has a substantial role for cryptography,
and that cryptography can be used even today to reduce risk to
acceptable levels in consumer financial transactions. FV does _not_
believe either of these things, although I'm sure NB will pay some
lip-services on the "eventually" score.


------                                                             ------
Douglas Barnes         "The tighter you close your fist, Governor Tarkin,
cman@communities.com    the more systems will slip through your fingers."
cman@best.com                                             --Princess Leia